Can Space be created within space?
in [Physics]
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From: mpc755 on 1 Aug 2010 14:44 On Aug 1, 9:16 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Aug 1, 2:02 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 7/31/10 11:49 PM, Kali Hawa wrote: > > > > Can a bigbang occur within our Universe? > 'Mysterious Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Tracked Deeper into Universe' http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/releases/2010/10-023.html 'The clusters appear to be moving along a line extending from our solar system toward Centaurus/Hydra, but the direction of this motion is less certain. Evidence indicates that the clusters are headed outward along this path, away from Earth, but the team cannot yet rule out the opposite flow. "We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said.' The clusters are headed along this path because the Universe is, or the local Universe we exist in is, a jet stream. Analogous to the jet stream of a black hole. The following is an image of a jet stream: http://aether.lbl.gov/image_all.html The reason for the expansion of the universe is the continual emission of dark matter. In the image above, '1st Stars' is where the conditions enable dark matter to be compressed into matter. It's not the Big Bang. It's the Big Ongoing. > > Why not? > > -------------- > idiot > space is nothing > so > how can a nothing be created from another nothing !! > you are not a physicist > go deal with philosophy > and even in phylosophy > you dont make any sense > Y.P > > ---------------------- What ripples? 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter' http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_feature.html "Astronomers using NASAs Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the water." The ripple will eventually reach the Earth and this is evidence dark matter exists from the galaxy cluster to the Earth. This is evidence dark matter is the medium of space in which light waves propagate.
From: Huang on 1 Aug 2010 14:53 On Aug 1, 8:18 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Aug 1, 2:29 pm, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 1, 7:02 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 7/31/10 11:49 PM, Kali Hawa wrote: > > > > > Can a bigbang occur within our Universe? > > > > Why not? > > > I find the cosmic firecracker model to be a little incomplete. > > > If motions in different reference frames can be equivalent, then > > cosmic expansion is equivalent to local contraction. You cannot > > conclude from redshift that we neccesarily have expansion. > > > If we were contracting locally you would have the same redshift. > > > These things are equivalent. > > ---------------- > the motion of light > is the same in all frames!! > so > red shift has nothing todo with > relativity > > Y.P > ------------------- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Precisely my point but the exact opposite conclusion. Velocity of light is indeed the same in all frames of reference. So why should we expect that redshift implies expansion "exclusively". It does not. If we were contracting locally we would observe the same thing. The bottom line is that it may be contracting, it may be expanding. These things must be equivalent otherwise GR is just pointless. I cannot accept that the Equivalence Principle applies exclusively to rectilinear motions. There is alot of nonlinear stuff happening in this universe. EP cannot be limited to these simplistic stick models, it's just the tip of the iceberg. But the belief that local contraction is impossible may be fixed in people's minds, very much like people were unable to accept a planetary model which placed the Sun at the center of the solar system.
From: Huang on 1 Aug 2010 14:58 On Aug 1, 10:35 am, john <vega...(a)accesscomm.ca> wrote: > On Aug 1, 7:05 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 8/1/10 7:29 AM, Huang wrote: > > > > On Aug 1, 7:02 am, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On 7/31/10 11:49 PM, Kali Hawa wrote: > > > >>> Can a bigbang occur within our Universe? > > > >> Why not? > > > > I find the cosmic firecracker model to be a little incomplete. > > > No Center > > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html > > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html > > > Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial > > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm > > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html > > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html > > > WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory > > http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html > > > WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology > > http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html > > You are pounding a bible, Sam. It's not the bible, just the dogma. Equivalence Principle applied to general affine transformations is clearly a sensible thing to do and just because nobody ever did it does not mean that it is a bad idea. Those links are a fine explanation of the curent cosmological view but are inadequate IMO.
From: BURT on 1 Aug 2010 16:58 On Aug 1, 11:44 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Aug 1, 9:16 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Aug 1, 2:02 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 7/31/10 11:49 PM, Kali Hawa wrote: > > > > > Can a bigbang occur within our Universe? > > 'Mysterious Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Tracked Deeper into Universe'http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/releases/2010/10-023.html > > 'The clusters appear to be moving along a line extending from our > solar system toward Centaurus/Hydra, but the direction of this motion > is less certain. Evidence indicates that the clusters are headed > outward along this path, away from Earth, but the team cannot yet rule > out the opposite flow. "We detect motion along this axis, but right > now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the > clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said.' > > The clusters are headed along this path because the Universe is, or > the local Universe we exist in is, a jet stream. Analogous to the jet > stream of a black hole. > > The following is an image of a jet stream: > > http://aether.lbl.gov/image_all.html > > The reason for the expansion of the universe is the continual emission > of dark matter. In the image above, '1st Stars' is where the > conditions enable dark matter to be compressed into matter. > > It's not the Big Bang. It's the Big Ongoing. > > > > Why not? > > > -------------- > > idiot > > space is nothing > > so > > how can a nothing be created from another nothing !! > > you are not a physicist > > go deal with philosophy > > and even in phylosophy > > you dont make any sense > > Y.P > > > ---------------------- > > What ripples? > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur... > > "Astronomers using NASAs Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the > water." > > The ripple will eventually reach the Earth and this is evidence dark > matter exists from the galaxy cluster to the Earth. This is evidence > dark matter is the medium of space in which light waves propagate. IF nothing gets out of a black hole then we are not seeing black holes but short of a black hole. Jet streams would not exist for real black holes. Mitch Raemsch
From: Sam Wormley on 1 Aug 2010 19:23
On 8/1/10 10:35 AM, john wrote: > On Aug 1, 7:05 am, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > On 8/1/10 7:29 AM, Huang wrote: >> > >>> > > On Aug 1, 7:02 am, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > >> On 7/31/10 11:49 PM, Kali Hawa wrote: >> > >>>>> > >>> Can a bigbang occur within our Universe? >> > >>>> > >> Why not? >> > >>> > > I find the cosmic firecracker model to be a little incomplete. >> > >> > No Center >> > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html >> > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html >> > >> > Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial >> > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm >> > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html >> > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html >> > >> > WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory >> > http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html >> > >> > WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology >> > http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html > You are pounding a bible, Sam. > > And that bible relies morethan a little on > questionable assumptions, faulty logic, > and outright guess; i.e. mass is a constant, > gravity can cause matter to self-implode, and > dark matter. Where as the big bang model relies on empirical evidence, such as the Hubble expansion, and blackbody spectrum of the CMB. |