Can we predict the outcome of a tossed coin?
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From: Dirk Van de moortel on 11 Nov 2009 16:26 John Jones <jonescardiff(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message hdf9ad$m2n$1(a)news.eternal-september.org > Can we predict the outcome of a tossed coin? Scientists and gamblers > have occasionally grappled with this problem. For the philosopher, > however, the answer is straightforward. There are no outcomes for a > tossed coin. > > For a philosopher, there is no possibility that an outcome of a tossed > coin is either heads or tails. Seen from above we may see heads, seen > from below we may see tails. > > The geometry of the coin means that we can only see one side at a time. The geometry of a mirror or a camera allows us to see both sides at a time. > Which side is seen depends not on "possibilities" but on the fickle, > subjective reasons for our preferred spatial orientation that we adopt > AFTER the coin has been tossed. It's a good thing that some people escape starvation through subsidies :-) Dirk Vdm
From: IlBeBauck on 11 Nov 2009 16:56 On Nov 11, 3:26 pm, "Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvandemoor...(a)nospAm.hotmail.com> wrote: > John Jones <jonescard...(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message > > hdf9ad$m2...(a)news.eternal-september.org > > > Can we predict the outcome of a tossed coin? Scientists and gamblers > > have occasionally grappled with this problem. For the philosopher, > > however, the answer is straightforward. There are no outcomes for a > > tossed coin. > > > For a philosopher, there is no possibility that an outcome of a tossed > > coin is either heads or tails. Seen from above we may see heads, seen > > from below we may see tails. > > > The geometry of the coin means that we can only see one side at a time. > a > The geometry of a mirror or a camera allows us to see both > sides at a time. > > > Which side is seen depends not on "possibilities" but on the fickle, > > subjective reasons for our preferred spatial orientation that we adopt > > AFTER the coin has been tossed.ur > > It's a good thing that some people escape starvation through subsidies :-) > > Dirk Vdm I would think the probability of a 2 sided coin landing on either heads or tails would be almost100 percent. I say almost because there is a very remote chance that it could land on its edge and stay there especially if it were tossed over soil or grass , in which case it would be neither heads or tails. Do you know the probability of there being another earth like ours based on all of the physics constants of our universe, solar system, and earth which are needed for earth to be here so we can be here ??? The probability as determined by Cosmologists is 10 to the 99th power probability (Astro- physicist Dr. Hugh Ross) . Yet our atheist freinds think it happened by 'natural causes' accidentally . Does this sound like good rationale ?
From: John Jones on 11 Nov 2009 18:19 Dirk Van de moortel wrote: > John Jones <jonescardiff(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message > hdf9ad$m2n$1(a)news.eternal-september.org >> Can we predict the outcome of a tossed coin? Scientists and gamblers >> have occasionally grappled with this problem. For the philosopher, >> however, the answer is straightforward. There are no outcomes for a >> tossed coin. >> >> For a philosopher, there is no possibility that an outcome of a tossed >> coin is either heads or tails. Seen from above we may see heads, seen >> from below we may see tails. >> >> The geometry of the coin means that we can only see one side at a time. > > The geometry of a mirror or a camera allows us to see both > sides at a time. But then you create two images. If you create two images for the coin, heads and tails, then that would be even less argumentatively likely to yield an outcome. If the object was transparent, maybe. But in all cases physical objects always have a hidden or covered face, or they wouldn't be physical objects. > >> Which side is seen depends not on "possibilities" but on the fickle, >> subjective reasons for our preferred spatial orientation that we adopt >> AFTER the coin has been tossed. > > > It's a good thing that some people escape starvation through subsidies :-) > > Dirk Vdm
From: Uncle Al on 11 Nov 2009 19:01 John Jones wrote: > > Can we predict the outcome of a tossed coin? Scientists and gamblers > have occasionally grappled with this problem. For the philosopher, > however, the answer is straightforward. There are no outcomes for a > tossed coin. > > For a philosopher, there is no possibility that an outcome of a tossed > coin is either heads or tails. Seen from above we may see heads, seen > from below we may see tails. Hey stooopid - what happens if it lands on its edge? You erected a straw man, that an outcome is ambiguous even after its participants agree on exclusionary rules. Now you have swabbed it into a tar baby. You give it a hug. We're not stupid. > The geometry of the coin means that we can only see one side at a time. Glass table, mirror, videocam... transparent coin; Moebius coin, Klein bottle coin... > Which side is seen depends not on "possibilities" but on the fickle, > subjective reasons for our preferred spatial orientation that we adopt > AFTER the coin has been tossed. Toss it in vacuum, in free fall. Put adhesive on the ceiling, have the obverse and converse be identical, use a disk magnetized so its pole are it broad faces. Don't look at the outcome. Use an astable multivibrator instead. Toss a cat with a piece of buttered bread strapped to its belly butter side up when the cat's feet are down. Drop the cat from a modest height and watch it hover. Hey stooopid - if you butter both sides of a piece of toast, will it still land butter side down? Uncle Al says, "Get stuck in an unpowered elevator and lavish emergency procedures and personnel are mobilized. Get stuck on an unpowered escalator and people look at you like you are an idiot." idiot -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm
From: HardySpicer on 11 Nov 2009 19:16
On Nov 12, 10:11 am, John Jones <jonescard...(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > Can we predict the outcome of a tossed coin? Scientists and gamblers > have occasionally grappled with this problem. For the philosopher, > however, the answer is straightforward. There are no outcomes for a > tossed coin. > > For a philosopher, there is no possibility that an outcome of a tossed > coin is either heads or tails. Seen from above we may see heads, seen > from below we may see tails. > > The geometry of the coin means that we can only see one side at a time. > Which side is seen depends not on "possibilities" but on the fickle, > subjective reasons for our preferred spatial orientation that we adopt > AFTER the coin has been tossed. For a "fair" coin the ossing problem is random and not deterministic. This means we can only assign an expected value to the outcome. Try it yourself - toss it 100 times and see how many heads you get. If you could determine the outcome then the event is no longer random. Hardy |