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From: Alexander Grigoriev on 12 Feb 2010 10:21
Guys, why don't you go and argue these fine points of the past somewhere
else. Here, we don't care who's got a bigger HTML tag.

"Hector Santos" <sant9442(a)nospam.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:etf6cU%23qKHA.4492(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
>
>>> >
>>> > He is presuming everyone is under the same network.
>>> >
>>> I'm presuming that your Usenet access incorporates the Big 8. That's
>>> far from being the unfair assumption that you are attemping to falsely
>>> portray it as, and if your Usenet access doesn't include the Big 8,
>>> that's most definitely /your/ problem, not anyone else's. Fix your
>>> problem, and don't blame others for it. It's not even as if you've
>>> never posted to a Big 8 newsgroup in your life. You and we all know
>>> that you have. So it's not even an /unreasonable/ presumption. You're
>>> a vendor of an NNTP software, for goodness' sakes. How do you think
>>> that it looks to your customers when they put "Hector Santos",
>>> "Santronics", and "Wildcat" into their favourite search engines and come
>>> across newsgroup threads where you are erroneously stating that
>>> cross-posting wastes bandwidth and are repeatedly manually overriding
>>> followups to move threads back into the |microsoft.*| hierarchy because
>>> you haven't the nous to post to a Big 8 newsgroup (in the |news.*|
>>> hierarchy, of all places)? They're going to wonder at an NNTP software
>>> vendor who is seemingly incapable of even organizing xyr own access to
>>> Usenet.
>
> No doubt, most people won't need to do a search because they already agree
> that you are nuts!!
>
> You really don't understand RFC 3522 (formerly RFC 2822), all the MIME
> related document and basically the heterogeneous world that exist in the
> Internet mail system.
>
> Get it in your head, if you post in PURE HTML only, which by the way is
> still a TABOO (frown upon) to use in usenet, there will be MANY systems
> and devices that will not be able to read and render your mail.
>
> If you want maximum exposure, then you should utilize the long invented
> standard technology that is supported your TBIRD mail reader to serve this
> very purpose. Why are you being such so stubborn about this?
>
> In all honestly I tried to save you the embarrassment by not posting into
> other newsgroup and keeping in the single group where it started. Keep it
> isolated and hopefully die quickly once you realize the error of your way.
> But I will do it now if you think that will serve your purpose.
>
> --
> HLS


From: Ivo Beltchev on 12 Feb 2010 10:45
I'm actually enjoying this :)
I was accused of wasting bandwidth by one of the clowns trying to
explain Emil's joke to the other clown.
But who's wasting bandwidth now, HA!

Alexander Grigoriev wrote:
> Guys, why don't you go and argue these fine points of the past somewhere
> else. Here, we don't care who's got a bigger HTML tag.
>
> "Hector Santos" <sant9442(a)nospam.gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:etf6cU%23qKHA.4492(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
>>
>>>>> He is presuming everyone is under the same network.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm presuming that your Usenet access incorporates the Big 8. That's
>>>> far from being the unfair assumption that you are attemping to falsely
>>>> portray it as, and if your Usenet access doesn't include the Big 8,
>>>> that's most definitely /your/ problem, not anyone else's. Fix your
>>>> problem, and don't blame others for it. It's not even as if you've
>>>> never posted to a Big 8 newsgroup in your life. You and we all know
>>>> that you have. So it's not even an /unreasonable/ presumption. You're
>>>> a vendor of an NNTP software, for goodness' sakes. How do you think
>>>> that it looks to your customers when they put "Hector Santos",
>>>> "Santronics", and "Wildcat" into their favourite search engines and come
>>>> across newsgroup threads where you are erroneously stating that
>>>> cross-posting wastes bandwidth and are repeatedly manually overriding
>>>> followups to move threads back into the |microsoft.*| hierarchy because
>>>> you haven't the nous to post to a Big 8 newsgroup (in the |news.*|
>>>> hierarchy, of all places)? They're going to wonder at an NNTP software
>>>> vendor who is seemingly incapable of even organizing xyr own access to
>>>> Usenet.
>> No doubt, most people won't need to do a search because they already agree
>> that you are nuts!!
>>
>> You really don't understand RFC 3522 (formerly RFC 2822), all the MIME
>> related document and basically the heterogeneous world that exist in the
>> Internet mail system.
>>
>> Get it in your head, if you post in PURE HTML only, which by the way is
>> still a TABOO (frown upon) to use in usenet, there will be MANY systems
>> and devices that will not be able to read and render your mail.
>>
>> If you want maximum exposure, then you should utilize the long invented
>> standard technology that is supported your TBIRD mail reader to serve this
>> very purpose. Why are you being such so stubborn about this?
>>
>> In all honestly I tried to save you the embarrassment by not posting into
>> other newsgroup and keeping in the single group where it started. Keep it
>> isolated and hopefully die quickly once you realize the error of your way.
>> But I will do it now if you think that will serve your purpose.
>>
>> --
>> HLS
>
>
From: Hector Santos on 12 Feb 2010 10:59
Funny how hypocrisy works! eh? Sometimes a little chaos is required to
reach steady state. The good news, my sabbatical here is nearly over. :)

Ivo Beltchev wrote:

> I'm actually enjoying this :)
> I was accused of wasting bandwidth by one of the clowns trying to
> explain Emil's joke to the other clown.
> But who's wasting bandwidth now, HA!
>
> Alexander Grigoriev wrote:
>> Guys, why don't you go and argue these fine points of the past
>> somewhere else. Here, we don't care who's got a bigger HTML tag.
>>
>> "Hector Santos" <sant9442(a)nospam.gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:etf6cU%23qKHA.4492(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> He is presuming everyone is under the same network.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm presuming that your Usenet access incorporates the Big 8.
>>>>> That's far from being the unfair assumption that you are attemping
>>>>> to falsely portray it as, and if your Usenet access doesn't include
>>>>> the Big 8, that's most definitely /your/ problem, not anyone
>>>>> else's. Fix your problem, and don't blame others for it. It's not
>>>>> even as if you've never posted to a Big 8 newsgroup in your life.
>>>>> You and we all know that you have. So it's not even an
>>>>> /unreasonable/ presumption. You're a vendor of an NNTP software,
>>>>> for goodness' sakes. How do you think that it looks to your
>>>>> customers when they put "Hector Santos", "Santronics", and
>>>>> "Wildcat" into their favourite search engines and come across
>>>>> newsgroup threads where you are erroneously stating that
>>>>> cross-posting wastes bandwidth and are repeatedly manually
>>>>> overriding followups to move threads back into the |microsoft.*|
>>>>> hierarchy because you haven't the nous to post to a Big 8 newsgroup
>>>>> (in the |news.*| hierarchy, of all places)? They're going to
>>>>> wonder at an NNTP software vendor who is seemingly incapable of
>>>>> even organizing xyr own access to Usenet.
>>> No doubt, most people won't need to do a search because they already
>>> agree that you are nuts!!
>>>
>>> You really don't understand RFC 3522 (formerly RFC 2822), all the
>>> MIME related document and basically the heterogeneous world that
>>> exist in the Internet mail system.
>>>
>>> Get it in your head, if you post in PURE HTML only, which by the way
>>> is still a TABOO (frown upon) to use in usenet, there will be MANY
>>> systems and devices that will not be able to read and render your mail.
>>>
>>> If you want maximum exposure, then you should utilize the long
>>> invented standard technology that is supported your TBIRD mail reader
>>> to serve this very purpose. Why are you being such so stubborn about
>>> this?
>>>
>>> In all honestly I tried to save you the embarrassment by not posting
>>> into other newsgroup and keeping in the single group where it
>>> started. Keep it isolated and hopefully die quickly once you realize
>>> the error of your way. But I will do it now if you think that will
>>> serve your purpose.
>>>
>>> --
>>> HLS
>>
>>



--
HLS
From: Ant on 12 Feb 2010 15:53
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard" wrote:

> Ant:wrote:
>> That talks about character sets, not markup language.

> No, it talks about parochialism, and the myth that there's some
> common 7-bit message format that Usenet is restricted to ...

Exactly. Character encodings, not HTML.

> ... the reasons that led to the very invention of MIME in the first
> place.

You're not posting anything that requires MIME. Hyperlinks and
emphasis marks are conventionally done in other ways on netnews -
e.g. forward slashes to denote italics.

I, like many others, believe HTML should be kept out of non-binary
newsgroups. Fair enough - a difference of opinion.

>> Except that it's not displayed by OE and is just a message ID.
>> That's not a good attribution. If I want the MID it's in the
>> references, and saying "get a proper news reader" won't make it a
>> better cite.

> The References: header is the cite.

Which is not the same as a good attribution (for readability of an
article) of who said what in quotes. Read "attribution" instead of
"cite" in my quoted text above.

>> In any case, the post to which I responded was text/plain not html

> Indeed. That made your original reply look rather silly.

Not at all. You omitted any attribution for the quoted text.

[rude redirection outside the Microsoft server ignored again]


From: Hector Santos on 12 Feb 2010 16:57

> I, like many others, believe HTML should be kept out of non-binary
> newsgroups. Fair enough - a difference of opinion.


Of course, (layman) end users continue to enjoy mark up languages in
telecomputing. However, it continues to be a PITA for
implementators, especially when bad guys exploit these people.

While there was "almost" a valid argument for redundancy under low
bandwidth situations, that really doesn't apply today exactly because
the growth of end-users to use HTML.

But this is about being friendly and cooperative with the rest of the
heterogeneous mail reading world. This is not about

"what you see is what you remotely get."

HIs posting render terribly under this TBIRD reader I am using and we
saw, its doesn't render at all at the Microsoft MSDN newsgroup online
site. I can assure you there are MANY mail reading facilities who are
not going to render a pure html only display properly, or if it did
the visual display is horrible.

You (speaking in general) can't play moderator when you break *rules*
such as posting in raw HTML only and cross posting half baked messages
with background context.

> [rude redirection outside the Microsoft server ignored again]

+1

--
HLS
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