Cranks on the endangered species list
in [Relativity]
|
Prev: The spinor nature of spacetime - Fictitious motion in a Minkowski spacetime
Next: QCD Meson Mass Paper -- Full Draft
From: PD on 8 Dec 2008 13:16 On Dec 6, 5:17 pm, Dono <sa...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > On Dec 6, 1:04 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > It's worth noting that Spaceman has decided to snap out of it and has > > turned his attention to other pointless pursuits. > > NoEinstein has petered off to a few random posts on the weekend, no > > longer able to muster the lung power to puff himself up anymore. > > Strich9 and his several aliases seemed to have finally stopped > > chattering. > > Brian Jones gave a brief gasp and announced he was quitting. > > ahahahanson is tired of hyenish cackling. > > Louis Savain no longer has the strength to tell people to pack it for > > months. > > Gerald O'Barr has finally shut up. > > Lester Zick has decided not to dress up anymore. > > Andre Michaud is sniffing less and less, and can still be heard over > > Marcel Luttgens. > > And there are a few others that seem to have faded away. > > > "Henri Wilson" and Ken Seto still persist in their attention-mongering > > ways, and so their physical health must be fine even if their mental > > health has deteriorated. > > > Time to till the field and see what weeds pop up in the spring! > > > PD > > You forgot some of the ones that are still going strong: > > 1. RB "the welder" Winn Yes, but he's a more obvious troll with no real interest in physics. > 2. Albertshito Zotkin > 3. Juanshito Alvarez Gonzalez And this fella seems more absorbed in people's manners than in physics. > 4. eigen, "the fake idiot" I generally ignore this guy except for an occasional poke. It quickly disintegrates. > 5. Mitch "the persistent imbecile" Raemsch I put this guy in the same category as dedanoe -- increasingly detached from reality, depending on whether his meds are up to date. > 6. Ken Sucker Same here. > 7. Y.Y.Parrot There is little point in talking with this guy, as he's just looking for credit and attribution. > 8. Josef "the Nimz asskisser" Matz > 9. Pancho "the Bulgarian Dolt" Valev Valev is such a colorful kook, it's hard not to poke him with a stick now and again. > > On a positive line, "OStrich,the mental inmate" has gone silent.
From: PD on 8 Dec 2008 13:21 On Dec 7, 8:42 am, GSS <gurcharn_san...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Dec 7, 2:04 am, PD <TheDraperFam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > It's worth noting that Spaceman has decided to snap out of it and has > > turned his attention to other pointless pursuits. > > NoEinstein has petered off to a few random posts on the weekend, no > > longer able to muster the lung power to puff himself up anymore. > > Strich9 and his several aliases seemed to have finally stopped > > chattering. > > Brian Jones gave a brief gasp and announced he was quitting. > > ahahahanson is tired of hyenish cackling. > > Louis Savain no longer has the strength to tell people to pack it for > > months. > > Gerald O'Barr has finally shut up. > > Lester Zick has decided not to dress up anymore. > > Andre Michaud is sniffing less and less, and can still be heard over > > Marcel Luttgens. > > And there are a few others that seem to have faded away. > > > "Henri Wilson" and Ken Seto still persist in their attention-mongering > > ways, and so their physical health must be fine even if their mental > > health has deteriorated. > > An unquestioning faith is the keystone of all regions. However, > demanding an unquestioning faith in any of the scientific disciplines > will surely lead to stagnation and self destruction in that > discipline. This is the main distinguishing feature of all sciences > where the ethos of questioning the blind faith, questioning the > postulates, axioms and dogmas is recognized as a healthy sign and is > encouraged. > > The so called 'crackpots' and 'cranks', are extremely important > members of the scientific community, who are nurturing the important > discipline of Physics and preventing its degeneration into a religious > faith. Exploration of all possible alternatives, hypothesis and > viewpoints, is absolutely essential for the well being and progress of > any scientific discipline. All attempts to gag or suppress any dissent > on the current paradigm of Physics, will amount to a crime against > humanity. > > It is certainly not necessary that all dissenting opinion must be > workable, brilliant or acceptable to the mainstream. Dissenting > opinion must be treated as an essential part of the exploration > process, to explore various inadequacies and shortcomings in the > current paradigm and to explore various alternatives. The mainstream > need not accept all dissenting opinion straight away; in fact they > should not. But the mainstream must pay heed to the dissenting > opinion, must consider it patiently and if possible discuss it openly. > Slowly and steadily all valid points from the bulk of dissenting > viewpoints, will get assimilated in to the mainstream and constitute a > progress in the concerned scientific discipline. > > The current global financial crisis had started brewing many years > ago. The excessive use of credit system, inadequate control and > regulatory mechanism, high leverages, greed driven derivatives and > hedge funds, were all pointing towards an eventual collapse of the > financial system. I understand that many intellectuals and experts in > the field, who dared to point out the above lacunae in the financial > system, were dubbed as 'crackpots' and 'cranks'. In retrospect, after > the current collapse of the global financial system, those 'crackpots' > and 'cranks' will now appear to be the sages of the system. > > Similar grave situation is now brewing in the field of fundamental > Physics. The so called 'crackpots' and 'cranks' of Physics are trying > their level best to highlight the inadequacies, flaws and lacunae in > the prevailing paradigm but they are persistently being snubbed and > gagged by the mainstream. Like the global financial system, it should > not become too late to start paying heed to the dissenting viewpoint > in fundamental Physics. > > GSS There's a difference between being snubbed and being gagged. As far as I know, no one has made any attempt to put you at a disadvantage in disseminating your positions. However, on the other hand, no one has put you at special advantage, giving you a leg up where you have deficiency. I agree with you that dissent is healthy and that constant re- examination is and should continue to be a perpetual practice in science. However, doing that does not automatically impart quality, nor does it automatically rate attention. There are certain metrics for the quality of scientific work which have *nothing* to do with whether the prevailing model is supported or not. Unless those metrics are met, there is no reason to offer warranty against being ignored. PD
From: eigen on 8 Dec 2008 15:09 On Dec 8, 7:16 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 6, 5:17 pm, Dono <sa...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 6, 1:04 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > It's worth noting that Spaceman has decided to snap out of it and has > > > turned his attention to other pointless pursuits. > > > NoEinstein has petered off to a few random posts on the weekend, no > > > longer able to muster the lung power to puff himself up anymore. > > > Strich9 and his several aliases seemed to have finally stopped > > > chattering. > > > Brian Jones gave a brief gasp and announced he was quitting. > > > ahahahanson is tired of hyenish cackling. > > > Louis Savain no longer has the strength to tell people to pack it for > > > months. > > > Gerald O'Barr has finally shut up. > > > Lester Zick has decided not to dress up anymore. > > > Andre Michaud is sniffing less and less, and can still be heard over > > > Marcel Luttgens. > > > And there are a few others that seem to have faded away. > > > > "Henri Wilson" and Ken Seto still persist in their attention-mongering > > > ways, and so their physical health must be fine even if their mental > > > health has deteriorated. > > > > Time to till the field and see what weeds pop up in the spring! > > > > PD > > > You forgot some of the ones that are still going strong: > > > 1. RB "the welder" Winn > > Yes, but he's a more obvious troll with no real interest in physics. > > > 2. Albertshito Zotkin > > 3. Juanshito Alvarez Gonzalez > > And this fella seems more absorbed in people's manners than in > physics. > > > 4. eigen, "the fake idiot" > > I generally ignore this guy except for an occasional poke. It quickly > disintegrates. > > > 5. Mitch "the persistent imbecile" Raemsch > > I put this guy in the same category as dedanoe -- increasingly > detached from reality, depending on whether his meds are up to date. > > > 6. Ken Sucker > > Same here. > > > 7. Y.Y.Parrot > > There is little point in talking with this guy, as he's just looking > for credit and attribution. > > > 8. Josef "the Nimz asskisser" Matz > > 9. Pancho "the Bulgarian Dolt" Valev > > Valev is such a colorful kook, it's hard not to poke him with a stick > now and again. > > > > > On a positive line, "OStrich,the mental inmate" has gone silent. In corpora, your "endangered species" postulate makes no any sense Thanks
From: Ken S. Tucker on 8 Dec 2008 15:19 Nice post, that economic part looks dead on! On Dec 7, 6:42 am, GSS <gurcharn_san...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Dec 7, 2:04 am, PD <TheDraperFam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > It's worth noting that Spaceman has decided to snap out of it and has > > turned his attention to other pointless pursuits. > > NoEinstein has petered off to a few random posts on the weekend, no > > longer able to muster the lung power to puff himself up anymore. > > Strich9 and his several aliases seemed to have finally stopped > > chattering. > > Brian Jones gave a brief gasp and announced he was quitting. > > ahahahanson is tired of hyenish cackling. > > Louis Savain no longer has the strength to tell people to pack it for > > months. > > Gerald O'Barr has finally shut up. > > Lester Zick has decided not to dress up anymore. > > Andre Michaud is sniffing less and less, and can still be heard over > > Marcel Luttgens. > > And there are a few others that seem to have faded away. > > > "Henri Wilson" and Ken Seto still persist in their attention-mongering > > ways, and so their physical health must be fine even if their mental > > health has deteriorated. > > An unquestioning faith is the keystone of all regions. However, > demanding an unquestioning faith in any of the scientific disciplines > will surely lead to stagnation and self destruction in that > discipline. This is the main distinguishing feature of all sciences > where the ethos of questioning the blind faith, questioning the > postulates, axioms and dogmas is recognized as a healthy sign and is > encouraged. > > The so called 'crackpots' and 'cranks', are extremely important > members of the scientific community, who are nurturing the important > discipline of Physics and preventing its degeneration into a religious > faith. Exploration of all possible alternatives, hypothesis and > viewpoints, is absolutely essential for the well being and progress of > any scientific discipline. All attempts to gag or suppress any dissent > on the current paradigm of Physics, will amount to a crime against > humanity. > > It is certainly not necessary that all dissenting opinion must be > workable, brilliant or acceptable to the mainstream. Dissenting > opinion must be treated as an essential part of the exploration > process, to explore various inadequacies and shortcomings in the > current paradigm and to explore various alternatives. The mainstream > need not accept all dissenting opinion straight away; in fact they > should not. But the mainstream must pay heed to the dissenting > opinion, must consider it patiently and if possible discuss it openly. > Slowly and steadily all valid points from the bulk of dissenting > viewpoints, will get assimilated in to the mainstream and constitute a > progress in the concerned scientific discipline. > > The current global financial crisis had started brewing many years > ago. The excessive use of credit system, inadequate control and > regulatory mechanism, high leverages, greed driven derivatives and > hedge funds, were all pointing towards an eventual collapse of the > financial system. I understand that many intellectuals and experts in > the field, who dared to point out the above lacunae in the financial > system, were dubbed as 'crackpots' and 'cranks'. In retrospect, after > the current collapse of the global financial system, those 'crackpots' > and 'cranks' will now appear to be the sages of the system. > > Similar grave situation is now brewing in the field of fundamental > Physics. The so called 'crackpots' and 'cranks' of Physics are trying > their level best to highlight the inadequacies, flaws and lacunae in > the prevailing paradigm but they are persistently being snubbed and > gagged by the mainstream. Like the global financial system, it should > not become too late to start paying heed to the dissenting viewpoint > in fundamental Physics. > GSS There are fewer good posters to this group, it's definitely gone downhill in the last few years, tho guys like you, Draper, and I respect RP's and Michauds POV, because they can be unique in a thought out way, Roberts is pretty good too, keeping things sane and interesting is what's all about. The rest tend to be foul mouth nerds or crack-pots, repetitious bores. Regards Ken S. Tucker
From: Tom Roberts on 8 Dec 2008 16:58
GSS wrote: > An unquestioning faith is the keystone of all regions. I assume you meant "religions". Yes. The problem around here is that all too many people unfamiliar with modern physics mistake understanding and agreement with "unquestioning faith". "Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" -- Arthur C, Clarke "Sufficiently advanced understanding is indistinguishable from faith." -- Tom Roberts The key is to advance YOUR OWN understanding so that you can distinguish them. > However, > demanding an unquestioning faith in any of the scientific disciplines > will surely lead to stagnation and self destruction in that > discipline. No scientific discipline "demands" that. What they require is UNDERSTANDING, not faith. But to you, and to all too many people around here, the two are indistinguishable. > The so called 'crackpots' and 'cranks', are extremely important > members of the scientific community, who are nurturing the important > discipline of Physics and preventing its degeneration into a religious > faith. Not true. There is no instance in the history of physics of someone making a contribution to the field without understanding the then-current theories and experiments. Contrary to your claim, crackpots and cranks who do not understand the now-current theories and experiments are not any part of the scientific community. People who present dissenting opinions with full knowledge of current theories and experiments are neither crackpots nor cranks -- one obvious difference is these latter can get published in the mainstream literature. Cranks and crackpots generally cannot get published in the mainstream literature, because a major purpose of peer review is to avoid wasting readers' time with "impossible" nonsense (see my next paragraph for the meaning of "impossible" here). > Exploration of all possible alternatives, hypothesis and > viewpoints, is absolutely essential for the well being and progress of > any scientific discipline. Yes. The key word is "possible", which in science means "consistent with all known experiments". Without knowing the current experimental record, a crackpot or crank simply does not understand what is and is not POSSIBLE. One must generally understand the then-current theories used when the experiment was published, in order to be able to read their paper(s) intelligently. The MMX is an excellent example of this, as are Miller's measurements. Such papers are inherently embedded in the context and milieu of physics when they were written. > It is certainly not necessary that all dissenting opinion must be > workable, brilliant or acceptable to the mainstream. No. But it _IS_ necessary that USEFUL "dissenting opinion" be POSSIBLE (in the above sense). Impossible "dissenting opinion" is useless and can be safely ignored. That's why so few real scientists pay attention to this newsgroup -- >90% of the posts are nonsense (or worse), and >99% of the "dissenting opinions" are IMPOSSIBLE (in the above sense). > Dissenting > opinion must be treated as an essential part of the exploration > process, to explore various inadequacies and shortcomings in the > current paradigm and to explore various alternatives. Not when such "dissenting opinion" is IMPOSSIBLE (in the above sense). The scientific literature is full of "dissenting opinion". Practically all of modern physics was once "dissenting opinion". And there are several current schools of thought about extending relativity ("doubly special relativity", "loop quantum gravity", "string theory", ...). But you won't hear about them around here, because they are all advanced topics far beyond the capabilities of just about everybody who contributes to this newsgroup; there are MUCH better forums in which to discuss them (primarily the literature, not the internet). The cranks and crackpots around here are in a completely different world, which is unrelated to science (and thus uninteresting to most scientists). Tom Roberts |