Deferred queue settings? [Postfix]

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From: Remy Lambert on 2 Sep 2009 12:33

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I'm a Postfix n00b, so I may be asking a loaded question...but here goes:

Recently, a user of mine sent an email to an incorrect address - he garbled=
the domain name. It took six days for our mail server to decide that it w=
as undeliverable...

Basically, the (incorrect) domain name actually resolved to a valid host, b=
ut threw timeouts on each attempt to deliver. The message sat in the defer=
red queue retrying every hour or so and accumulating errors, until it reach=
ed about ~435000 seconds, then finally resolved it as undeliverable and not=
ified the user.

In my opinion, this should have happened much, much sooner. It may just be=
a niche case, but I'd like to know how I can adjust the parameters that co=
ntrol how a deferred message remains deferred - for instance, how much time=
has passed since initial delivery attempt or how many errors have been enc=
ountered before the delivery failure is considered permanent.

I've looked through the documentation, but I can't see anything that relate=
s to this - just the minimal and maximal retry timers for the deferred queu=
e. Am I looking for the wrong keyword here or can I not adjust these param=
eters?

Thanks!

-Rem

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<div class=3DSection1>

I’m a Postfix n00b, so I may be asking a loaded
question…but here goes:<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Recently, a user of mine sent an email to an incorrect
address – he garbled the domain name.  It took six days for our =
mail
server to decide that it was undeliverable…<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Basically, the (incorrect) domain name actually resolved=
to
a valid host, but threw timeouts on each attempt to deliver.  The mess=
age
sat in the deferred queue retrying every hour or so and accumulating errors=
,
until it reached about ~435000 seconds, then finally resolved it as
undeliverable and notified the user.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

In my opinion, this should have happened much, much
sooner.  It may just be a niche case, but I’d like to know how I=
can
adjust the parameters that control how a deferred message remains deferred =
–
for instance, how much time has passed since initial delivery attempt or ho=
w
many errors have been encountered before the delivery failure is considered
permanent.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

I’ve looked through the documentation, but I can&#=
8217;t
see anything that relates to this – just the minimal and maximal retr=
y
timers for the deferred queue.  Am I looking for the wrong keyword her=
e or
can I not adjust these parameters?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Thanks!<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

-Rem<o:p></o:p>

</div>

</body>

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--_000_85E075698C1E474DB77EE23868E0C76E06FE2A6E9CSIAhealthforc_--

From: Wietse Venema on 2 Sep 2009 12:48

Remy Lambert:
> I'm a Postfix n00b, so I may be asking a loaded question...but here goes:
>
> Recently, a user of mine sent an email to an incorrect address -
> he garbled the domain name. It took six days for our mail server
> to decide that it was undeliverable...
[snip]

Indeed, the mail system does not know whether the user made a typing
error, or whether the address is correct and the host or network
are down.

> In my opinion, this should have happened much, much sooner.

See http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html for an overview
of available options.

The time before return is configurable. The default is 5 days so
that email will survive a weekend outage plus time for repair.

http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#maximal_queue_lifetime

Postfix can also be configured to send mail when there is a delay:

http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#delay_warning_time

If you are totally unfamiliar with managing an email server, the
Postfix manpages alone will not get far, and you should consider
one of the excellent books that is written on Postfix.

Wietse

From: Remy Lambert on 2 Sep 2009 13:08

Awesome, this is what I needed - thanks!

I see that what ended up happening in my case is the "bounce_queue_lifetime=
" default maximum of 432000 seconds (5 days) was eventually reached. I'll =
shorten that up to 3 days for my purposes...if it's something on our side w=
e can fix it way before then, and if it's not our problem then our users ne=
ed to know quickly so they can get on the phone.

I don't see any parameter that tracks error counts for deferred items - in =
the 120 hours that the message was deferred it suffered as many errors, at =
least - surely enough to alert the user that there is trouble. Is there a =
way for me to configure any sort of error-tracking functionality, either bu=
ilt-in or scripted?

I'm going to take your advice and get a book on Postfix - there are many! =
I've always been fond of the O'Reilly series, any suggestions?

I come from the land of MS Exchange so, although I'm competent with mail se=
rver management, this is all new to me!

Thanks for your help!

-Rem
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-postfix-users(a)postfix.org [mailto:owner-postfix-users(a)postfix.o=
rg] On Behalf Of Wietse Venema
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:49 AM
To: Postfix users
Subject: Re: Deferred queue settings?

Remy Lambert:
> I'm a Postfix n00b, so I may be asking a loaded question...but here goes:
>=20
> Recently, a user of mine sent an email to an incorrect address -
> he garbled the domain name. It took six days for our mail server
> to decide that it was undeliverable...
[snip]

Indeed, the mail system does not know whether the user made a typing
error, or whether the address is correct and the host or network
are down.

> In my opinion, this should have happened much, much sooner.

See http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html for an overview
of available options.

The time before return is configurable. The default is 5 days so
that email will survive a weekend outage plus time for repair.

http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#maximal_queue_lifetime

Postfix can also be configured to send mail when there is a delay:

http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#delay_warning_time

If you are totally unfamiliar with managing an email server, the
Postfix manpages alone will not get far, and you should consider
one of the excellent books that is written on Postfix.

Wietse

From: Wietse Venema on 2 Sep 2009 13:20

Remy Lambert:
> Awesome, this is what I needed - thanks!
>
> I see that what ended up happening in my case is the
> "bounce_queue_lifetime" default maximum of 432000 seconds (5 days)
> was eventually reached. I'll shorten that up to 3 days for my
> purposes...if it's something on our side we can fix it way before
> then, and if it's not our problem then our users need to know
> quickly so they can get on the phone.

You need to update maximal_queue_lifetime.

> I don't see any parameter that tracks error counts for deferred
> items - in the 120 hours that the message was deferred it suffered
> as many errors, at least - surely enough to alert the user that
> there is trouble. Is there a way for me to configure any sort of
> error-tracking functionality, either built-in or scripted?

Limiting the retry COUNTS makes no sense. Consider that a host is
down for 24 hours. No matter how often you try, mail won't go
through until the host comes back. In fact, Postfix increases the
retry time, up to a configurable limit, as mail gets older.

> I'm going to take your advice and get a book on Postfix - there
> are many! I've always been fond of the O'Reilly series, any
> suggestions?

I'll let other people speak to that.

> I come from the land of MS Exchange so, although I'm competent
> with mail server management, this is all new to me!

Welcome, stranger.

Wietse

> Thanks for your help!
>
> -Rem
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-postfix-users(a)postfix.org [mailto:owner-postfix-users(a)postfix.org] On Behalf Of Wietse Venema
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: Postfix users
> Subject: Re: Deferred queue settings?
>
> Remy Lambert:
> > I'm a Postfix n00b, so I may be asking a loaded question...but here goes:
> >
> > Recently, a user of mine sent an email to an incorrect address -
> > he garbled the domain name. It took six days for our mail server
> > to decide that it was undeliverable...
> [snip]
>
> Indeed, the mail system does not know whether the user made a typing
> error, or whether the address is correct and the host or network
> are down.
>
> > In my opinion, this should have happened much, much sooner.
>
> See http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html for an overview
> of available options.
>
> The time before return is configurable. The default is 5 days so
> that email will survive a weekend outage plus time for repair.
>
> http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#maximal_queue_lifetime
>
> Postfix can also be configured to send mail when there is a delay:
>
> http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#delay_warning_time
>
> If you are totally unfamiliar with managing an email server, the
> Postfix manpages alone will not get far, and you should consider
> one of the excellent books that is written on Postfix.
>
> Wietse
>
>

From: Remy Lambert on 2 Sep 2009 13:30

Oops, you're right - typed the wrong parameter name!

Regarding the error counts, I see what you're getting at - when taking into=
consideration how often a message can be retried over any given span of ti=
me, it makes error count pretty irrelevant. I suppose if I want the messag=
e to bounce after x number of failures, I should just compute the average t=
ime it would take to produce that condition and shorten "maximal_queue_life=
time" to that number.

Thanks again for your help!

-Rem

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-postfix-users(a)postfix.org [mailto:owner-postfix-users(a)postfix.o=
rg] On Behalf Of Wietse Venema
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:20 AM
To: Postfix users
Subject: Re: Deferred queue settings?

Remy Lambert:
> Awesome, this is what I needed - thanks!
>=20
> I see that what ended up happening in my case is the
> "bounce_queue_lifetime" default maximum of 432000 seconds (5 days)
> was eventually reached. I'll shorten that up to 3 days for my
> purposes...if it's something on our side we can fix it way before
> then, and if it's not our problem then our users need to know
> quickly so they can get on the phone.

You need to update maximal_queue_lifetime.

> I don't see any parameter that tracks error counts for deferred
> items - in the 120 hours that the message was deferred it suffered
> as many errors, at least - surely enough to alert the user that
> there is trouble. Is there a way for me to configure any sort of
> error-tracking functionality, either built-in or scripted?

Limiting the retry COUNTS makes no sense. Consider that a host is
down for 24 hours. No matter how often you try, mail won't go
through until the host comes back. In fact, Postfix increases the
retry time, up to a configurable limit, as mail gets older.

> I'm going to take your advice and get a book on Postfix - there
> are many! I've always been fond of the O'Reilly series, any
> suggestions?

I'll let other people speak to that.

> I come from the land of MS Exchange so, although I'm competent
> with mail server management, this is all new to me!

Welcome, stranger.

Wietse

> Thanks for your help!
>=20
> -Rem
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-postfix-users(a)postfix.org [mailto:owner-postfix-users(a)postfix=
..org] On Behalf Of Wietse Venema
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: Postfix users
> Subject: Re: Deferred queue settings?
>=20
> Remy Lambert:
> > I'm a Postfix n00b, so I may be asking a loaded question...but here goe=
s:
> >=20
> > Recently, a user of mine sent an email to an incorrect address -
> > he garbled the domain name. It took six days for our mail server
> > to decide that it was undeliverable...
> [snip]
>=20
> Indeed, the mail system does not know whether the user made a typing
> error, or whether the address is correct and the host or network
> are down.
>=20
> > In my opinion, this should have happened much, much sooner.
>=20
> See http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html for an overview
> of available options.
>=20
> The time before return is configurable. The default is 5 days so
> that email will survive a weekend outage plus time for repair.
>=20
> http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#maximal_queue_lifetime
>=20
> Postfix can also be configured to send mail when there is a delay:
>=20
> http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#delay_warning_time
>=20
> If you are totally unfamiliar with managing an email server, the
> Postfix manpages alone will not get far, and you should consider
> one of the excellent books that is written on Postfix.
>=20
> Wietse
>=20
>=20

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