Does a magnetic field rotate with a magnet...the answer!
in [Physics]
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From: bert on 1 Mar 2010 18:09 On Feb 25, 7:21 pm, Salmon Egg <Salmon...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > In article > <9dc5908d-ac98-4ee3-adfb-75f867dae...(a)e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > bert <herbertglazie...(a)msn.com> wrote: > > On Feb 23, 8:44 pm, Salmon Egg <Salmon...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > In article > > > <050688a2-85ed-44db-b8a3-98a0e46e5...(a)h17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > bert <herbertglazie...(a)msn.com> wrote: > > > > Field flows from south pole to north pole,and is in constant motion.. > > > > This is shown to us by its "lines of force" (compass) Turn > > > > mechanically an iron rotor into this field and pickup electrons and > > > > you have a generator. Have electrons enter this field and the iron > > > > rotor will turn,and you hhave an electric motor.Thus you see how both > > > > are the same. Two sides to the same coin. Both just hum,as they > > > > receive or transfer energy in the nicest way. Just one moving > > > > part. TreBert > > > > Field flows? How can such flow be demonstrated? Can fllowkng field be > > > accumulated in a reservoir? > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > > An old man would be better off never having been born. > > > Bill No electric field can not be stored. It has to be keeped flowing. > > Charge can be built up(like lighning) Electricity will not flow > > unless it has a conducter.(copper wire) Magnetizim and electricity > > two sides to same coin. Antenna and transmeter Two sides to the same > > coin. Best to store magnets north and south. TreBert > > Sorry, I do not want to end up thinking of you like I think of Benj. I > will give you another opportunity to explain. > > What do you MEAN by a field "flowing"? How can you tell whether a field > is flowing or is stationary? Give me an experimental (even a gedamken > version) that will make the distinction. > > If I go to a hydraulic analog, I can have a fluid flowing with a > pressure present. In a steady state state situation there will be a flow > field as a function of position--not a field that is flowing. The flow > field is the velocity factor of the substance that is flowing, That > field remains constant. Think of a hose carrying water from a hose bib. > There is a flow field in the hose that does not change even while you > can use the hose to fill a bucket. > > Please explain. > > Bill > > -- > An old man would be better off never having been born.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Electricity can not be stored. LHC has magnet field going round and round. Earth fields flows south pole to north magnetic pole. Electricity is the flow of electrons Magnetisim is the flow of virtual photons,and so are radio waves. Read up on QED TreBert
From: Benj on 1 Mar 2010 19:55 On Mar 1, 3:18 am, "Vince Morgan" <vin...(a)TAKEOUToptusnet.com.au> wrote: > IDIOCY! My appologies. > I'll try again. > Could it be that Lorentz force, being directional, is what we have percieved > as magnetic dipoles? It pushes at one end and sucks on the other, so to > speak. I can see the Lorentze force dong this. And I see the accumulation > of many Lorentz force vectors making one larger, errrr, magnetic field. > I mean, if there is no unique entity as a 'magnetic filed' then any magnetic > dipole (All 'magnetic fields' are an aggragate of 'magnetic dipoles' aren't > they?) is simply the same phenomena. Ie. Lorentz interactions. > Wrong? > Highest regards, > Vince I'm not saying there is no such thing as a magnetic field! At least I don't think I am. What we are doing is trying to see what causes what! And if you do that you find that currents are a source. They create magnetic fields and they also create electric fields (which is called induction). Since they create both things at once people often jump to a mistaken conclusion that magnetic fields cause E fields and vice versa. The truth is that their VALUES are related to each other because they both come from the same source. But if we have a ring of current it creates a magnetic field. And if the ring is small and you look at the shape of the field it makes, it's exactly the same analog to the electric field made by a close-spaced + and - charge. In other words its a "dipole" field. Since all permanent magnets seem to be made as a result of currents (electrons) circulating around atoms, we see that magnetic dipoles are the source of that magnetism. I suppose since all magnetic fields come from currents and currents require that the circuit form a loop one might argue that all magnetic fields are dipole fields (at least at a large distance). But the magnetic field close to a straight wire isn't in the shape of a dipole field.
From: BURT on 1 Mar 2010 20:36 On Mar 1, 4:55 pm, Benj <bjac...(a)iwaynet.net> wrote: > On Mar 1, 3:18 am, "Vince Morgan" <vin...(a)TAKEOUToptusnet.com.au> > wrote: > > > IDIOCY! My appologies. > > I'll try again. > > Could it be that Lorentz force, being directional, is what we have percieved > > as magnetic dipoles? It pushes at one end and sucks on the other, so to > > speak. I can see the Lorentze force dong this. And I see the accumulation > > of many Lorentz force vectors making one larger, errrr, magnetic field. > > I mean, if there is no unique entity as a 'magnetic filed' then any magnetic > > dipole (All 'magnetic fields' are an aggragate of 'magnetic dipoles' aren't > > they?) is simply the same phenomena. Ie. Lorentz interactions. > > Wrong? > > Highest regards, > > Vince > > I'm not saying there is no such thing as a magnetic field! At least I > don't think I am. What we are doing is trying to see what causes what! > And if you do that you find that currents are a source. They create > magnetic fields and they also create electric fields (which is called > induction). Since they create both things at once people often jump to > a mistaken conclusion that magnetic fields cause E fields and vice > versa. The truth is that their VALUES are related to each other > because they both come from the same source. But if we have a ring of > current it creates a magnetic field. And if the ring is small and you > look at the shape of the field it makes, it's exactly the same analog > to the electric field made by a close-spaced + and - charge. In other > words its a "dipole" field. Since all permanent magnets seem to be > made as a result of currents (electrons) circulating around atoms, we > see that magnetic dipoles are the source of that magnetism. I suppose > since all magnetic fields come from currents and currents require that > the circuit form a loop one might argue that all magnetic fields are > dipole fields (at least at a large distance). But the magnetic field > close to a straight wire isn't in the shape of a dipole field. Some fields do not come from elctric flow alone but in electric alignment. Mitch Raemsch
From: Androcles on 1 Mar 2010 21:24 "Benj" <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> wrote in message news:cac97edc-1745-4d16-bad6-b4ff27456d38(a)v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com... On Mar 1, 3:18 am, "Vince Morgan" <vin...(a)TAKEOUToptusnet.com.au> wrote: > IDIOCY! My appologies. > I'll try again. > Could it be that Lorentz force, being directional, is what we have > percieved > as magnetic dipoles? It pushes at one end and sucks on the other, so to > speak. I can see the Lorentze force dong this. And I see the accumulation > of many Lorentz force vectors making one larger, errrr, magnetic field. > I mean, if there is no unique entity as a 'magnetic filed' then any > magnetic > dipole (All 'magnetic fields' are an aggragate of 'magnetic dipoles' > aren't > they?) is simply the same phenomena. Ie. Lorentz interactions. > Wrong? > Highest regards, > Vince I'm not saying there is no such thing as a magnetic field! At least I don't think I am. What we are doing is trying to see what causes what! =================================================== Which came first, the chicken or the egg? =================================================== And if you do that you find that currents are a source. They create magnetic fields and they also create electric fields (which is called induction). Since they create both things at once people often jump to a mistaken conclusion that magnetic fields cause E fields and vice versa. =================================================== Since neither is created at once people often jump to a mistaken conclusion that they are both created at once. A STATIC electric field causes nothing, it's just a AAA battery. A CHANGING electric field causes a STATIC magnetic field. A STATIC magnetic field causes nothing, it's just a bar magnet. A CHANGING magnetic field causes a STATIC electric field. This is observation.
From: Salmon Egg on 2 Mar 2010 00:54
In article <tF_in.301043$8K4.182626(a)newsfe15.ams2>, "Androcles" <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_u> wrote: > > And if you do that you find that currents are a source. They create > magnetic fields and they also create electric fields (which is called > induction). Since they create both things at once people often jump to > a mistaken conclusion that magnetic fields cause E fields and vice > versa. If you want to be accurate and precise, current is a source of VECTOR POTENTIAL. To find the magnetic field you use the current distribution subject to boundary conditions to calculate the vector potential. Take the curl of this potential to get the B field. Now if you do use vector potentials, how does the vector potential from the equivalent surface currents of a cylindrically symmetric bar magnet change the vector potential as it is spun about its axis? Maybe I should entitle this blurb with: Does the vector potential of a spinning magnet produce a variable vector potential? Bill -- An old man would be better off never having been born. |