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From: Tom Stiller on 9 Feb 2010 18:05
In article <tph-7922A7.15134409022010(a)localhost>,
Tom Harrington <tph(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote:

> In article <tom_stiller-615784.15390509022010(a)news.individual.net>,
> Tom Stiller <tom_stiller(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <C7972724.5261C%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>,
> > Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I found it intuitive enough to enable me -- someone who is still not
> > > comfortable using Terminal -- to quickly create an "application" that
> > > automatically quits any open MS apps and perform a scheduled backup of my
> > > MS
> > > identity database (which I have excluded from my Time Machine backups).
> > > (I
> > > admit that the "real" solution for me is to trash my Entourage email
> > > client
> > > altogether and move on to something that's better designed, but until I
> > > do....)
> >
> > I replaced the Microsoft User Data file on my wife's account with a
> > sparse bundle disk image mounted as her ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data.
> >
> > Now TimeMachine just does its thing, the backup remains a reasonable
> > size and I can forget about a separate backup scheme.
>
> Does Time Machine have problems with this folder? I'm not sure why
> these steps are necessary.

It doesn't have a problem, but my wife (who saves everything) has two
volunteer Entourage Identity databases besides her own, each nearly 2 GB
is size. I just feel that's too much to backup each hour. The
sparsebundle contains many smaller files, not all of which are modified
by e-mail activity.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
From: Nick Naym on 9 Feb 2010 19:02
In article tph-7922A7.15134409022010(a)localhost, Tom Harrington at
tph(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net wrote on 2/9/10 5:13 PM:

> In article <tom_stiller-615784.15390509022010(a)news.individual.net>,
> Tom Stiller <tom_stiller(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <C7972724.5261C%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>,
>> Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I found it intuitive enough to enable me -- someone who is still not
>>> comfortable using Terminal -- to quickly create an "application" that
>>> automatically quits any open MS apps and perform a scheduled backup of my MS
>>> identity database (which I have excluded from my Time Machine backups). (I
>>> admit that the "real" solution for me is to trash my Entourage email client
>>> altogether and move on to something that's better designed, but until I
>>> do....)
>>
>> I replaced the Microsoft User Data file on my wife's account with a
>> sparse bundle disk image mounted as her ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data.
>>
>> Now TimeMachine just does its thing, the backup remains a reasonable
>> size and I can forget about a separate backup scheme.
>
> Does Time Machine have problems with this folder?

No. It's the nature of the monolithic MS database that's the problem. Tom
Stiller's approach may address some of the size issue, but it doesn't
address the constant creation of backups even when little actual data has
changed.


> I'm not sure why
> these steps are necessary.

Entourage emails are stored in a single database, which (as you would
expect) quickly becomes quite large. It also means that the database is
constantly changing. Consequently, even if you only receive a single email
between backups, Time Machine will be forced to back up your entire email
database every time Time Machine runs. Having TM constantly backing up the
database when little has changed is a waste of resources that can affect
performance and may generate unnecessary wear and tear.

A "solution" seems to be to exclude the database from TM's backup routine,
and to instead save copies of it periodically (say, every 2 or 3 hours) to a
"Email Database Backup" folder on your HD. This is the "work around"
approach to saving the database less often than TM's normal schedule would
otherwise require.

One of the problems with this, however, is that it was discovered that any
changes that might be going on with the actual database (say, you're sending
an email) while you were backing up the database to that internal folder can
lead to corruption. So, you needed to be sure that Entourage wasn't running
while you were making those 2-3 hour backups.

But wait...there's more!

It was also discovered that the same was true if the Microsoft Database
Daemon was running during the backup...so that needed to be quit as well.

But wait, there's STILL more...

In fact, it seems that database corruption was a possibility if ANY
Microsoft application was running during that periodic database update.

Bottom line: Because it's Microsoft, nothing is easy. If Rube Goldberg were
alive today, he'd have a lifetime's worth of material for his cartoon strip.


--
iMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) � OS X (10.5.8)

From: Nick Naym on 9 Feb 2010 19:06
In article tom_stiller-B9DE43.18052509022010(a)news.individual.net, Tom
Stiller at tom_stiller(a)yahoo.com wrote on 2/9/10 6:05 PM:

> In article <tph-7922A7.15134409022010(a)localhost>,
> Tom Harrington <tph(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote:
....
....
>>
>> Does Time Machine have problems with this folder? I'm not sure why
>> these steps are necessary.
>
> It doesn't have a problem, but my wife (who saves everything) has two
> volunteer Entourage Identity databases besides her own, each nearly 2 GB
> is size. I just feel that's too much to backup each hour. The
> sparsebundle contains many smaller files, not all of which are modified
> by e-mail activity.


Ummm...I just saw this.

See my previous (long-winded) response to Tom Harrington's question.
--
iMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) � OS X (10.5.8)

From: Tom Harrington on 9 Feb 2010 19:18
In article <tom_stiller-B9DE43.18052509022010(a)news.individual.net>,
Tom Stiller <tom_stiller(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <tph-7922A7.15134409022010(a)localhost>,
> Tom Harrington <tph(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <tom_stiller-615784.15390509022010(a)news.individual.net>,
> > Tom Stiller <tom_stiller(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > I replaced the Microsoft User Data file on my wife's account with a
> > > sparse bundle disk image mounted as her ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data.
> > >
> > > Now TimeMachine just does its thing, the backup remains a reasonable
> > > size and I can forget about a separate backup scheme.
> >
> > Does Time Machine have problems with this folder? I'm not sure why
> > these steps are necessary.
>
> It doesn't have a problem, but my wife (who saves everything) has two
> volunteer Entourage Identity databases besides her own, each nearly 2 GB
> is size. I just feel that's too much to backup each hour. The
> sparsebundle contains many smaller files, not all of which are modified
> by e-mail activity.

I see, since I don't use Entourage I didn't realize this would happen.

--
Tom "Tom" Harrington
Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002
http://www.atomicbird.com/
From: commiebastard on 9 Feb 2010 21:51
On Feb 9, 7:02 pm, Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> In article tph-7922A7.15134409022010(a)localhost, Tom Harrington at
> t...(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net wrote on 2/9/10 5:13 PM:
>
>
>
> > In article <tom_stiller-615784.15390509022...(a)news.individual.net>,
> >  Tom Stiller <tom_stil...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> In article <C7972724.5261C%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>,
> >>  Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>> I found it intuitive enough to enable me -- someone who is still not
> >>> comfortable using Terminal -- to quickly create an "application" that
> >>> automatically quits any open MS apps and perform a scheduled backup of my MS
> >>> identity database (which I have excluded from my Time Machine backups). (I
> >>> admit that the "real" solution for me is to trash my Entourage email client
> >>> altogether and move on to something that's better designed, but until I
> >>> do....)
>
> >> I replaced the Microsoft User Data file on my wife's account with a
> >> sparse bundle disk image mounted as her ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data.
>
> >> Now TimeMachine just does its thing, the backup remains a reasonable
> >> size and I can forget about a separate backup scheme.
>
> > Does Time Machine have problems with this folder?
>
> No. It's the nature of the monolithic MS database that's the problem. Tom
> Stiller's approach may address some of the size issue, but it doesn't
> address the constant creation of backups even when little actual data has
> changed.
>
> > I'm not sure why
> > these steps are necessary.
>
> Entourage emails are stored in a single database, which (as you would
> expect) quickly becomes quite large. It also means that the database is
> constantly changing. Consequently, even if you only receive a single email
> between backups, Time Machine will be forced to back up your entire email
> database every time Time Machine runs. Having TM constantly backing up the
> database when little has changed is a waste of resources that can affect
> performance and may generate unnecessary wear and tear.
>
> A "solution" seems to be to exclude the database from TM's backup routine,
> and to instead save copies of it periodically (say, every 2 or 3 hours) to a
> "Email Database Backup" folder on your HD. This is the "work around"
> approach to saving the database less often than TM's normal schedule would
> otherwise require.
>
> One of the problems with this, however, is that it was discovered that any
> changes that might be going on with the actual database (say, you're sending
> an email) while you were backing up the database to that internal folder can
> lead to corruption. So, you needed to be sure that Entourage wasn't running
> while you were making those 2-3 hour backups.
>
> But wait...there's more!
>
> It was also discovered that the same was true if the Microsoft Database
> Daemon was running during the backup...so that needed to be quit as well.
>
> But wait, there's STILL more...
>
> In fact, it seems that database corruption was a possibility if ANY
> Microsoft application was running during that periodic database update.
>
> Bottom line: Because it's Microsoft, nothing is easy. If Rube Goldberg were
> alive today, he'd have a lifetime's worth of material for his cartoon strip.
>
> --
> iMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) € OS X (10.5.8)

I heard that rsync is able to backup only changes to files, so it
might be another solution to the problem of saving the large
monolithic database file.
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