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From: Don Stockbauer on 10 Sep 2009 16:35
On Sep 10, 3:14 am, Don Stockbauer <donstockba...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 10, 12:15 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Premise: The wavelength is determined by the light source and cannot
> > depend on the movements of the observer.
>
> > Premise: (frequency)=(speed of light)/(wavelength)
>
> > Conclusion: If the observer is initially at rest relative to but then
> > starts moving towards the light source, the frequency (Doppler effect)
> > and THE SPEED OF LIGHT INCREASE.
>
> > Pentcho Valev
> > pva...(a)yahoo.com
>
> The frequency increases, but the speed doesn't.
>
> What is the speed relative to?

I'm really kind of serious here. I mean, if the SOL is so-and-so, it
must be traveling relative to something which serves as a baseline
for measurement. Was this settled at some point? I mean, like, was
it determined to be the aether? Or maybe it travels relative to all
the mass in the Universe?

From: Kevin B. Murphy on 10 Sep 2009 17:46

On 10-Sep-2009, Pentcho Valev <pvalev(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

> Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com sci.math:1246404 sci.astro:542036
> alt.philosophy:704144 sci.logic:266843
>
> Premise: The wavelength is determined by the light source and cannot
> depend on the movements of the observer.
>
> Premise: (frequency)=(speed of light)/(wavelength)
>
> Conclusion: If the observer is initially at rest relative to but then
> starts moving towards the light source, the frequency (Doppler effect)
> and THE SPEED OF LIGHT INCREASE.
>
> Pentcho Valev
> pvalev(a)yahoo.com

I think the premise here that Einstein is using here is that your clock runs
faster if you rush towards the source of the light so there is no change in
frequency (cycles/unit of time).

--
If you are at war, you should be proud... If you are at peace, you should be
ashamed.

From: Peter Webb on 10 Sep 2009 21:47

"Don Stockbauer" <donstockbauer(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:12fa66be-55a3-4544-989a-7acd500f9e2e(a)x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 10, 3:14 am, Don Stockbauer <donstockba...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 10, 12:15 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Premise: The wavelength is determined by the light source and cannot
> > depend on the movements of the observer.
>
> > Premise: (frequency)=(speed of light)/(wavelength)
>
> > Conclusion: If the observer is initially at rest relative to but then
> > starts moving towards the light source, the frequency (Doppler effect)
> > and THE SPEED OF LIGHT INCREASE.
>
> > Pentcho Valev
> > pva...(a)yahoo.com
>
> The frequency increases, but the speed doesn't.
>
> What is the speed relative to?

I'm really kind of serious here. I mean, if the SOL is so-and-so, it
must be traveling relative to something which serves as a baseline
for measurement. Was this settled at some point? I mean, like, was
it determined to be the aether? Or maybe it travels relative to all
the mass in the Universe?

________________________
If you are serious, then here is how it works. The speed of light is a
constant, irrespective of which inertial frame it is measured in. You can
use any inertial reference frame as the "something" which the speed of light
is measured against. The aether was originally intended to be that
"something" against which absolute speed was measured; SR rendered the
aether worthless for this purpose.



From: Peter Webb on 10 Sep 2009 21:50

"Kevin B. Murphy" <kmurphy004(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gJOdnSL63uon7jTXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> On 10-Sep-2009, Pentcho Valev <pvalev(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com sci.math:1246404 sci.astro:542036
>> alt.philosophy:704144 sci.logic:266843
>>
>> Premise: The wavelength is determined by the light source and cannot
>> depend on the movements of the observer.
>>
>> Premise: (frequency)=(speed of light)/(wavelength)
>>
>> Conclusion: If the observer is initially at rest relative to but then
>> starts moving towards the light source, the frequency (Doppler effect)
>> and THE SPEED OF LIGHT INCREASE.
>>
>> Pentcho Valev
>> pvalev(a)yahoo.com
>
> I think the premise here that Einstein is using here is that your clock
> runs
> faster if you rush towards the source of the light so there is no change
> in
> frequency (cycles/unit of time).
>

No, in SR (and GR for that matter) if you move towards a light source, it
appears to have (and in fact does have) a higher frequency. Hence the red
shift for receding galaxies.

With you as a teacher, and Valev as a student, I don't think a lot will be
learned. Good though your intentions probably are.



> --
> If you are at war, you should be proud... If you are at peace, you should
> be
> ashamed.
>

From: Don Stockbauer on 10 Sep 2009 23:36
On Sep 10, 8:47 pm, "Peter Webb"
<webbfam...(a)DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "Don Stockbauer" <donstockba...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:12fa66be-55a3-4544-989a-7acd500f9e2e(a)x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 10, 3:14 am, Don Stockbauer <donstockba...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 10, 12:15 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Premise: The wavelength is determined by the light source and cannot
> > > depend on the movements of the observer.
>
> > > Premise: (frequency)=(speed of light)/(wavelength)
>
> > > Conclusion: If the observer is initially at rest relative to but then
> > > starts moving towards the light source, the frequency (Doppler effect)
> > > and THE SPEED OF LIGHT INCREASE.
>
> > > Pentcho Valev
> > > pva...(a)yahoo.com
>
> > The frequency increases, but the speed doesn't.
>
> > What is the speed relative to?
>
> I'm really kind of serious here.  I mean, if the SOL is so-and-so, it
> must be traveling relative to something which  serves as a baseline
> for measurement.  Was this settled at some point?  I mean, like, was
> it determined to be the aether?  Or maybe it travels relative to all
> the mass in the Universe?
>
> ________________________
> If you are serious, then here is how it works. The speed of light is a
> constant, irrespective of which inertial frame it is measured in. You can
> use any inertial reference frame as the "something" which the speed of light
> is measured against. The aether was originally intended to be that
> "something" against which absolute speed was measured; SR rendered the
> aether worthless for this purpose.

Thank you. That does seem familiar now that you mention it. Haven't
thought too much about SR in a long time. Been off in the cybernetic
world.
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