Ebay and shill bidding, finally someone is charged
in [Digital Cameras]
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From: Russ D on 6 Jul 2010 17:09 On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:55:06 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Jul 6, 4:25�pm, Russ D <ru...(a)myowndomain.org> wrote: >> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:54:59 -0700 (PDT), Rich <rander3...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >On Jul 6, 9:20 am, krishnananda <kris...(a)divine-life.in.invalid> >> >wrote: >> >> In article >> >> <505de634-400e-45bb-8be8-52dbca06f...(a)y4g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> RichA <rander3...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be >> >> > convicted of shill bidding in April. >> >> >> *One* person convicted since eBay's founding in 1995? I would say the >> >> odds are with the shill bidders -- there shouldn't be another conviction >> >> until 2025! >> >> >I actuall caught one of the biggest camera sellers doing this (a >> >pattern of bidders, all same, bidding at the mid-level, whenever the >> >action stalled). �I reported it to Ebay who claimed that nothing was >> >wrong, but those bidders who had been involved in nearly every auction >> >for months suddenly disappeared. �I guess Ebay didn't want to hurt one >> >of their �top sellers. >> >> When buying a nice electronic piano not long ago, I noticed a pattern with >> some sellers. Since I research things for a long time before deciding on a >> purchase, this gave me several weeks of watching some items being sold on >> ebay and how they were panning out. There's a large group of sellers who >> are completely bogus. They just take the paypal payment and run. At first I >> thought of reporting the simple pattern they use and how to spot them. But >> then I noticed that all bidders would bid on their items, leaving the >> genuine sellers alone. This allowed me to pay bottom dollar for a genuine >> item while all others were being distracted by the theives. I decided it >> was in my best interest to not convey how to easily spot the theives. > >Great for the buyer, not great for legit merchants. I'd have reported >the scum. Not much different than figuring out how to beat the house at blackjack every time. Or the casino watching for those that learned how and then they ban them from their establishment because people smarter than they are are finally winning. Isn't this the whole point to free-trade, commerce, and capitalism? Whoever can screw-over the other guy the best, wins? Until I learn otherwise from a preponderance of examples in society I'll keep the thieves' secret safe with me. It may come in handy the next time I'm bidding on a really nice item.
From: Me on 6 Jul 2010 21:29 On 6/07/2010 11:08 p.m., RichA wrote: IMO better to not bother about legislation/rules and prosecution - especially when it's impossible to control. If they tighten up criteria for identifying shill bids, the shill bidders will just get smarter about how they do it. The final buy price is decided by the highest bidder - and nobody is holding a gun to their heads. If they get carried away by the process of competitive bidding, then surely that's their problem alone.
From: gamer_reg on 7 Jul 2010 08:14 HELLO!!!! Is anybody awake out there? Of COURSE these sites are rife with scams and corruption! It's HUMAN NATURE! That it's taken THIS long to bring one to justice is evidence on how well rBay covers up the sieve they call their "customer protection" and "security" plans. "Critics of eBay say shill bidding is a widespread problem on the site. eBay spokesperson Vanessa Canzenni denies that not enough is being done to prevent it. She said: "We spend �6 million every year to try and stop shill bidding from happening.... "The fact that we're the number one e-commerce site proves that customers can buy and sell with confidence."" They are #1 because they are the oldest, best established and because they spend those millions on keeping the frauds that they help perpetuate quiet. How long do you think they would be #1 if there were 1,000, or 100,000 cases like this a year? CAVET EMPTOR folks - Let the buyer beware! If you got ripped off it is because YOU LET YOURSELF GET RIPPED OFF! I am not a particular opponent of eBay. I AM however a proponent of a little common sense and it's judicious use! *IF* you are going to do business with somebody you never look face to face then you better expect this kind of thing! Remember: It's NEVER about you..... when money is involved! On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 04:08:38 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127(a)gmail.com> wrote: >BBC: >A man has been fined �3,000 and ordered to carry out 250 hours >community service after fixing an online auction on eBay. > >Paul Barrett, 39 and from County Durham, became the first person to be >convicted of shill bidding in April. > >That's when online sellers bid on their own items to artificially bump >up the price or get friends and family to do it for them. > >Barrett was sentenced after admitting 10 counts at Bradford Crown >Court. > >The minibus hire firm boss pleaded guilty after an investigation by >North Yorkshire Trading Standards found he had bid against himself on >several items, including a pie and pasty warmer on sale for �127. > >Mr Barrett told the court that he didn't realise the practice was >against the law. > >BBC News: How do you catch online auction cheats? >'Happens regularly' > >Critics of eBay say shill bidding is a widespread problem on the site. > >eBay spokesperson Vanessa Canzenni denies that not enough is being >done to prevent it. > >She said: "We spend �6 million every year to try and stop shill >bidding from happening. >Paul Barrett Paul Barrett claimed he was not aware he was acting >illegally by shill bidding > >"The fact that we're the number one e-commerce site proves that >customers can buy and sell with confidence." > >She also claims eBay is able to spot when shill bidding is happening, >although wouldn't provide any details about how that's possible. > >She added: "We have leading technology that enables us to detect when >people are trying to do this." > >However, Jo Boutflower, the trading standards officer who brought the >case against Mr Barrett, does admit it's very difficult to prove shill >bidding. > >She said: "We have to have sufficient evidence or suspicion of an >offence before we can exercise powers to get eBay records for >example." > >Regular eBay user Rezza Faizee, 27 and from Workington in Cumbria, >reckons it's a massive problem and something that has happened to him >when he was trying to buy a mobile phone. > >"It's definitely something that happens regularly," he admitted. > >"I've had friends, family, and the same thing's happened to them. > >"I honestly don't know what you can do to tackle the problem, I >honestly don't." >Bookmark with
From: jls on 22 Jul 2010 10:52 On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:09:59 -0500, Russ D <russd(a)myowndomain.org> wrote: >f Isn't this the whole point to free-trade, commerce, and >capitalism? Whoever can screw-over the other guy the best, wins? Until I >learn otherwise from a preponderance of examples in society I'll keep the >thieves' secret safe with me. It may come in handy the next time I'm >bidding on a really nice item. > > To your initial question, the answer is an unequivocal NO. That is not "the whole point" of "free-trade, commerce, and capitalism". The fact that people exist who are willing to exploit weaknesses in a system doesn't not mean that the system was designed with this in mind. You're merely exploiting the exploiters, which doesn't make you any better than they are. Imho, a better solution is to identify all exploiters and take action - this effectively fixes the weaknesses. It doesn't have to be perfect, but if it significantly reduces the success rate (i.e., the profitability) for the fraudsters, then it will become less of an incentive for them.
From: bugbear on 22 Jul 2010 11:04
Russ D wrote: > > When buying a nice electronic piano not long ago, I noticed a pattern with > some sellers. Since I research things for a long time before deciding on a > purchase, this gave me several weeks of watching some items being sold on > ebay and how they were panning out. There's a large group of sellers who > are completely bogus. They just take the paypal payment and run. At first I > thought of reporting the simple pattern they use and how to spot them. But > then I noticed that all bidders would bid on their items, leaving the > genuine sellers alone. Really? This means all the others bidders could tell the difference too. And were deliberately bidding with the crooks. That sounds ... unlikely. > This allowed me to pay bottom dollar for a genuine > item while all others were being distracted by the theives. I decided it > was in my best interest to not convey how to easily spot the theives. > |