Economy build for home use.
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From: John on 6 May 2010 21:52 Paul wrote: > John wrote: >> >> My 7 year old XP desktop is about shot and I don't believe its worth >> bothering with. I built it myself but 7 years is a long time in >> computer terms so obviously I am clueless in 2010. >> >> Here is what I need: >> >> 1. Windows 7 >> >> 2. Motherboard and 4 gig memory --- 2 or 4 cores whatever is the best >> bang for the buck, AMD or Intel - doesn't matter to me. Must also have >> a PATA port to support one old hard drive and temporarily a zip drive >> to retrieve backed up info. Support for an internal floppy. >> >> 3. Sata hard drive - 200-250 gig or so should be more than enough. >> >> 4. Sata 5.25 CD/DVD burner - light tan bezel to match an older case. >> >> 5. Video card - I am not a gamer - but I do watch the occasional >> video. Will use a a CRT monitor for now but will upgrade to LCD later. >> >> 6. Quality power supply. >> >> What I have on hand: >> 3.5 floppy >> ZIP drive >> CRT monitor >> keyboard (IBM clickety-clack) I am a programmer >> optical mouse >> A large ATX tower with two 3.5 and three 5.25 external bays + three >> 3.5 internal bays. It also has two exhaust fans (2.875 dia. - 73mm ?) . >> Four working pata drives including one ATA133. >> >> The problem is everything except the mouse is the old light tan color >> and I dont know if they even still make CD/DVD and floppy drives in >> that color anymore. But I like this case, its easy to work in due to >> its size and has slide in external and lever type internal bays. I >> suppose I could paint it but I would rather not. >> >> The new build will be used for surfing, word processing, programming >> (C, C++ etc) and general home use. >> >> I must maintain some old software so will need to dual boot to get a >> DOS prompt. I have most of the older MS operating systems from DOS to >> XP available so that isn't a problem - I hope! >> >> Anyone have suggestions for an economy build in the $300-325 range? As >> fast a system as possible given the low dollar amount. >> >> Thanks, >> John >> > > Note: When i pick hardware, I don't always pick the cheapest stuff. > Some of it is just too risky, to be recommended. So the following > is just some ballpark numbers. > > AMD covers a pretty wide range at the low end. You'd head to AMD, > if shaving off every nickel. > > A hard disk for $45. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148451 > > Optical drive for $25. Might as well get a burner, considering the prices. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204 > > 2x2GB DDR2-800 CAS5 for $108 (I selected DDR2 to try to save money) > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122 > > Motherboard for $100. Details in a moment. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138146 > > That one is "buzz word" compliant. It is a full sized motherboard. > The VCore regulator supports processors up to 140W, so you don't have to > throw away the motherboard, if you upgrade the processor to the fastest > thing AMD makes. > > It has a mix of slots, for easy upgrading later. > > It has built-in graphics. You don't have to buy a video card. > The connectors on the motherboard, include DVI and VGA, which > should cover most cheap monitor connections. It claims HDMI, > but I didn't look at the details at all. > > The 790GX has built-in graphics. This article, says the built-in > GPU is HD3300. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700_chipset_series > > HD3300 is UVD2. UVD2 is an accelerator for video playback. Certain > movie player applications can tap into the acceleration feature. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder > > On that Biostar board, they included sideport memory on the chipset. > The sideport memory is a private memory chip, used by the GPU. > It doesn't seem to make much difference, but it is there anyway. > Part of your $100 purchase. That is what the "128M" in the product > description is referring to - a 128MB RAM chip, soldered to the > side of the Northbridge, and used by the GPU. If that optional chip > was removed, the built-in graphics would use some system memory (UMA). > > The board takes DDR2 memory, which I selected in the hopes of getting > the cheapest memory available. You can always take a look at DDR3, and > see if it is cheaper. And then, select another motherboard, one with > DDR3. And in a quick check, indeed, I can find DDR3 memory for about > the same price. So that opens up more motherboard choices, if > I wanted to go back and shop for the items all over again. > > Now, throw in a processor. > First, I take a look in the CPU support table, to see whether they > officially support my purchase. The 555 isn't listed, but the 550 is. > (Ideally, you want a motherboard manufacturer, who keeps up to date, > and has the latest processors in their table.) > > http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/cpu_support.php?S_ID=408 > > AMD Phenom II X2 x550 > > Then pick a dual core for $88. We're up to 3100Mhz. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103847 > > So now our project cost is: > > 45+25+108+100+88= $366 > > I attempted to save money, by getting a board with integrated > graphics, and a graphics choice that has video playback acceleration. > If I bought a $50 motherboard and $50 video card, I wouldn't save > any money that way. And the video card will have a minimum cost, > to get something that might have video playback acceleration. You can > get video cards for perhaps $25 or $30, if you didn't care at all > about what they accelerated. You'd spend a few dollars more, for > something more current and up to date. > > I could cut the memory in half, and buy 2x1GB for about half the > price of the other product. That saves $50 or so. That actually helps > in this case, in moving me towards the $300 target. > > I could go looking for a much cheaper motherboard, but then I > might get a chipset with no video acceleration. That isn't all bad. > If the CPU has a high enough clock speed, you might still be OK > for video playback. My current system, doesn't have any fancy > video acceleration, and I can still smoothly play some Flash > video full screen. > > You could drop further down on the processor. This one is $65 > and probably not that much different than the one I selected for $88. > That shaves off another $23. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681 > > So I can make $300, mainly by going with 2x1GB and using the $65 processor. > Now my project cost is approximately: > > 45+25+54+100+65= $289 > > (I simply took the memory price and cut it in half. You should be able > to find 2x1GB for $54, but I didn't check.) > > In terms of ATX power, as long as you have at least a 20 pin > connector (20 pin power works in 24 pin motherboards), and the > power supply has a ATX12V 2x2 square plug for the processor, chances > are you'll have enough power. As long as your power supply is still > working, you might be able to reuse it. > > http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html > > (Plugging 20 pin power, into a 24 pin motherboard.) > http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/20in24.jpg > > The dual core covers off the basics for your processing requirements. > You might have regrets about such a choice, if you did nothing all > day but shrink DVD files so you could burn them on single sided > DVDs. But for a lot of other applications, a dual is perfectly > acceptable. For a lot of people, a quad spends most of its > time "sleeping". > > Windows 7 changes the picture a little bit, and would likely > encourage more CPU and memory. But we're on a budget. It may > be worth the extra $54, to keep the full 4GB. > > You can use this page, to see what AMD makes in terms of CPUs. > > http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUResult.aspx > > ******* > > If I wanted to go Intel, I'd select: > > Motherboard $67 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157115 > > E6600 "Pentium" dual core 3.06GHz $98 (it's not in the Asrock CPU table) > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116347 > > Video card with UVD2.2 $33 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150335 > > (They have a video card compatibility table, and that card isn't on it.) > http://www.asrock.com/mb/vga.asp?Model=4CoreDual-SATA2%20R2.0 > > The selections I just made, are purely speculative, more speculative > than my AMD choices above. But I picked them, to see how close > I could get to matching the price. > > So compare that to the AMD solution. With AMD, I'm paying $100+$88 > versus 67+98+33= 198 for an Intel solution. I've owned that Asrock > motherboard, > and it is fine at stock settings. I use a hacked BIOS from Germany > to get working EIST (for power saving at idle). The main benefit of that > motherboard, is the support for legacy interfaces. It even had a serial > RS232 port. I managed to install Win98 on it, by using an AGP video card. > It accepts either AGP video or PCI Express video, but the PCI Express > slot is wired for x4 lanes (roughly the same bandwidth as AGP 4X). > > You can get an Intel pricelist here, to see how much cheaper you > could do than an Pentium E6600. The E6600 was selected, because it supports > virtualization (VT-x), and some of the cheaper ones don't. Same goes with > the Core2 Duo flavor - some don't have VT-x, like the E4700 I happened > to buy, before I found out about virtualization. > > http://www.intc.com/priceList.cfm > > (You can check for Intel VT-x, in the charts here. Pentium E6600 3.06Ghz > has it.) > http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?familyId=41877 > > Paul Thank you Paul. I'll check the items you suggested. John
From: Mark on 7 May 2010 05:34 On Mon, 3 May 2010 01:55:44 +0000 (UTC), ShadowTek <ShadowTek(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >The most demanding activity that you listed is watching video, which >will require a good CPU or video card if you ever want to watch anything >in 720p or greater. > >If you've never tried Linux before, I'd suggest >looking into it. That'll save you some cash on the OS costs. Indeed. It will run faster on the same hardware too. You can still run windows applications using virtualization technology. I'd only recommend windows for gamers. Or better still get a PS3 or XBOX and play games on the console. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
From: John Doe on 7 May 2010 06:15 Mark <i dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote: > ShadowTek <ShadowTek invalid.invalid> wrote: >> The most demanding activity that you listed is watching video, >> which will require a good CPU or video card if you ever want to >> watch anything in 720p or greater. >> >> If you've never tried Linux before, I'd suggest looking into >> it. That'll save you some cash on the OS costs. > > Indeed. Only if your time is worthless. Only if you do not really want to get things done. Only if you are a Linux Lunatic. Linux is a server operating system. Linux is a huge waste of time for the average home user. And this is not a Linux advocacy group. > It will run faster on the same hardware too. More like running without tennis shoes. > You can still run windows applications using virtualization > technology. In that case it will not run faster on the same hardware. > I'd only recommend windows for gamers. Or better still get a > PS3 or XBOX and play games on the console. I play real-time strategy by voice. That is one of many things you will never be able to do in Linux. If you want to talk to techies about Linux, that is fine, but you will be discouraged from wasting the time of average users here in this group with your Linux Lunatic bullshit. -- > -- > (\__/) M. > (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and > (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles > posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by > everyone you will need use a different method of posting. > > > > Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.brightview.co.uk!news.brightview.co.uk.POSTED!not-for-mail > NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 04:46:17 -0500 > From: Mark <i dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> > Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt > Subject: Re: Economy build for home use. > Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 10:34:32 +0100 > Reply-To: y5ojlnx02 sneakemail.com > Message-ID: <ahn7u5lvbbqk0p0jgv2o8niamka9dhu748 4ax.com> > References: <BlpDn.96088$3u2.8177 news.usenetserver.com> <slrnhtsb93.tce.ShadowTek shadowtek.localdomain> > X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > User-Agent: Hamster/2.1.0.11 > Lines: 22 > X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com > X-Trace: sv3-8JJTz6w+z50399v5Ts/W53tBVs6Nt4fyseHnT5Vy/5BhSkOhueR9lPUykY9DntZ86QmEvt68RxqNjYd!NgH/11Re4MNnpLIX6cOa1e7SjtJY52+eKfT4oMkDE45x2O5Ebep/9Z/D+y1PlfNmTzlqNPdYnI8R!Hf29+XeHir1rZVHX > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly > X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 >
From: John Doe on 7 May 2010 06:26 ShadowTek <ShadowTek invalid.invalid> wrote: > John <John nowhere.com> wrote: >> The new build will be used for surfing, word processing, >> programming (C, C++ etc) and general home use. >> >> I must maintain some old software so will need to dual boot to >> get a DOS prompt. I have most of the older MS operating systems >> from DOS to XP available so that isn't a problem - I hope! .... > If you've never tried Linux before, I'd suggest looking into it. > That'll save you some cash on the OS costs. Linux as a server operating system. Linux is a huge waste of time for the average PC user. The user you are recommending Linux to would not be able to use it. -- > Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news.mixmin.net!eternal- september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: ShadowTek <ShadowTek invalid.invalid> > Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt > Subject: Re: Economy build for home use. > Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 01:55:44 +0000 (UTC) > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 49 > Message-ID: <slrnhtsb93.tce.ShadowTek shadowtek.localdomain> > References: <BlpDn.96088$3u2.8177 news.usenetserver.com> > Injection-Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 01:55:44 +0000 (UTC) > Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting- host="dN2aeTQoOQ2i3ri+aIaRkw"; logging-data="16782"; mail-complaints- to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting- account="U2FsdGVkX1/3pMzskjAbY0pKMAa7zwuDBG66pl//34I=" > User-Agent: slrn/pre1.0.0-11 (Linux) > Cancel-Lock: sha1:4KWpU487YGOg6yTNOpShEWNMzJ0= >
From: bobmct on 7 May 2010 07:48 On 07 May 2010 10:26:13 GMT, John Doe <jdoe(a)usenetlove.invalid> wrote: >ShadowTek <ShadowTek invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> John <John nowhere.com> wrote: > >>> The new build will be used for surfing, word processing, >>> programming (C, C++ etc) and general home use. >>> >>> I must maintain some old software so will need to dual boot to >>> get a DOS prompt. I have most of the older MS operating systems >>> from DOS to XP available so that isn't a problem - I hope! > >... > >> If you've never tried Linux before, I'd suggest looking into it. >> That'll save you some cash on the OS costs. > >Linux as a server operating system. Linux is a huge waste of time >for the average PC user. The user you are recommending Linux to >would not be able to use it. I MUST disagree! If the user downloads and installs a distro such as mint or even kubuntu or opensuse all the tools are there and for alternate OSes such as Windows or DOS loading VirtualBox is a snap. The OP mentioned C/C++ programming. So what about LInux might this "programmer" not understand? I've actually seen unsophisticated users, given a very short trial of *nix, not be able to tell the difference when it comes to most services (except those that consistently claim that IE is requires to look at their site). You may be biased, don't ASSUME everyone else is.
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