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From: Jerry on 15 Apr 2010 06:11
On Apr 15, 3:26 am, sorin <sorincosof...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The original Daneil cell and the first Volta cell are working similar
> > with proposed cell(Zn,Fe and sulfuric acid).
>
> FALSE!!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniell_cell
>
> > In fact a variant of the
> > daniell cell
>
> I presume you mean the "gravity cell"
>
> I think it's better for your practice to build a gravity cell, and to
> leave it over the night without a consumer connected between anode and
> cathode and try to measure in the second day the potential and current
> into circuit...
> You will see that your battery is gone...

An unused Daniell cell gradually dies off over several days
because the gradient disappears, not because the electrodes are
consumed.

In the absence of use, the zinc electrode is STABLE in the zinc
sulfate, and the copper electrode is STABLE in the copper sulfate.

An unused Sorin cell dies off quickly because the zinc electrode
spontaneously dissolves in the strong sulfuric acid, and the iron
electode spontaneously dissolves in the strong sulfuric acid,
leaving you with no electrodes after a day or so, only an acidic
solution of copper and iron sulfate.

> So, the same mechanism governs the idiotic design of proposed battery
> and daniell cell.
> In one case there is a Zn metal consumption and Cu metal generation,
> but in solution Zn species are increased and Cu is diminished.
> In other case there is Zn and Fe consumption and increasing of both
> species in solution.

In your case, there is an INCREASE in Zn consumption from the
basal level, and a DECREASE in Fe consumption from the basal
level, IN COMPLETE ACCORDANCE WITH STANDARD THEORY.

Jerry
From: sorin on 15 Apr 2010 13:36
As you say:

Both electrodes experience continuous oxidation in strong sulfuric
acid in the complete absence of any current, as evidenced by the
continuous evolution of hydrogen bubbles from both plates even
while unconnected by a wire.
But by connecting the plates with a wire, you INCREASE the rate
of oxidation from the negative electrode (i.e. the electrode from
which you are withdrawing electrons) and DECREASE the rate of
oxidation from the positive electrode (i.e. the electrode to which
you are feeding electrons.)
So what happens in your so-called "experiment" is in complete
accord with standard theory.

If you convince all the authors of scientific books to mention in
their books, that in some cases, a continuous oxidation takes place at
both anode and cathode of a battery, I agree with you that STANDARD
THEORY is able to explain my first experiment.
So I repeat what you have expressed: BOTH ELECTRODES EXPERIENCE
OXIDATION in absence or in presence of a wire between them. For the
experiment it is not important the reaction acceleration or the
measured current.

Related to Volta battery, you leave the subject aside.
Can you explain me the mechanism of current increasing when a salt is
thrown into water?
how a salt into solution push the electrons from one electrode through
metallic wire toward opposite electrode:
how this current remain constant in time for hours?
There is a hidden circuit of electrons through solution in order to
assure this flux of electrons?
From: Jerry on 15 Apr 2010 20:35
On Apr 15, 12:36 pm, sorin <sorincosof...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> As you say:
>
> Both electrodes experience continuous oxidation in strong sulfuric
> acid in the complete absence of any current, as evidenced by the
> continuous evolution of hydrogen bubbles from both plates even
> while unconnected by a wire.
> But by connecting the plates with a wire, you INCREASE the rate
> of oxidation from the negative electrode (i.e. the electrode from
> which you are withdrawing electrons) and DECREASE the rate of
> oxidation from the positive electrode (i.e. the electrode to which
> you are feeding electrons.)
> So what happens in your so-called "experiment" is in complete
> accord with standard theory.
>
> If you convince all the authors of scientific books to mention in
> their books, that in some cases, a continuous oxidation takes place at
> both anode and cathode of a battery, I agree with you that STANDARD
> THEORY is able to explain my first experiment.

Why should authors give coverage to a stupid setup?

> So I repeat what you have expressed: BOTH ELECTRODES EXPERIENCE
> OXIDATION in absence or in presence of a wire between them.

Why do you consider that UTTERLY TRIVIAL observation to be a
challenge to conventional electrochemical theory?

? For the
> experiment it is not important the reaction acceleration or the
> measured current.
>
> Related to Volta battery, you leave the subject aside.
> Can you explain me the mechanism of current increasing when a salt is
> thrown into water?

Yes.

> how a salt into solution push the electrons from one electrode through
> metallic wire toward opposite electrode:
>  how this current remain constant in time for hours?
> There is a hidden circuit of electrons through solution in order to
> assure this flux of electrons?

How absurd. You "challenge" me with simple questions whose
answers may be found in any introductory text on the subject.

Jerry
From: sorin on 16 Apr 2010 02:29
You made the statement that both Zn and Fe are oxidized by strong (for
me even by dilute ) sulfuric acid in the absence of a wire which
connect Fe and Zn pieces.
When a wire connect both electrodes actual science and you as
defenders must specify what is the anode and what is the cathode, more
precisely what electrodes oxidizes and what electrodes reduces.
From experimental point of view it is obvious that both electrodes are
oxidizing when a metallic wire is between them.


Please indicate the introductory chemistry book where the Volta
battery and the importance of salt brine are analyzed. In all
scientific book read by me there is sometimes a sentence about this in
the introductory part without any detail.

Sorin
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