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From: BURT on 17 Feb 2010 15:23
On Feb 17, 9:09 am, dlzc <dl...(a)cox.net> wrote:
> Dear maxwell:
>
> On Feb 17, 8:52 am, maxwell <s...(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 16, 9:44 am,dlzc<dl...(a)cox.net> wrote:
> > > On Feb 16, 10:32 am, Occidental <Occiden...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Are there any elements for which the orbital
> > > > velocity of electrons
>
> > > Whatever that means to an electron cloud...
>
> > > > is a significant fraction of the velocity
> > > > of light?
>
> > >http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Relativity/SR/gold_color.html
>
> > The 'electron cloud' view is the result of
> > statistical sampling.  No one has ever seen
> > or measured an electron cloud - only point
> > particles.
>
> The "electron cloud" has been observed using atomic force microscopy
> and more:http://dcmp.bc.edu/page.php?name=gallery#ADATOM
> ... note this is not truly in contradiction to what you have said,
> since AFM (and other imaging methods) requires a host of sample points
> for a single image, and this is tantamount to your "statistical
> sampling".
>
> David A. Smith- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Electrons vibrate.

Mitch Raemsch
From: dlzc on 17 Feb 2010 15:35
On Feb 17, 1:23 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
....
> Electrons vibrate.

There is no "unshielded" macroscopic motion of electrons, or we'd have
a catastrophic collapse of atoms and molecules in close proximity to
one another, or we'd have an infinite energy source from a single
hydrogen atom.

We have neither, and you can't understand this answer either.

Of course, that might explain the big smile on the electron's faces:
http://www.slate.com/id/2121835/slideshow/2121919/

David A. Smith
From: carlip-nospam on 17 Feb 2010 19:05
Occidental <Occidental(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> Are there any elements for which the orbital velocity of electrons is
> a significant fraction of the velocity of light?

Yes (if by orbital velocity you mean the expectation value of the
momentum divided by the mass of an electron). You might look
at the Wikipedia article on relativistic quantum chemistry,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_quantum_chemistry

Relatvistic effects give gold its color and resistance to tarnishing;
see http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/golden_glow/

Steve Carlip
From: maxwell on 18 Feb 2010 11:32
On Feb 17, 8:52 am, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 12:32 pm, Occidental <Occiden...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Are there any elements for which the orbital velocity of electrons is
> > a significant fraction of the velocity of light?
>
>  Probably in all of them, in the outermost "valennce bond" layer.
> (In hydrogen atoms the electrons orbital speed is
>       c' = cFs = 2.1876923 x 10^8 cm/sec,
> in which Fs denotes the Fine Structure Constant.)
>   To those who disagree, note that the numerical value
> of Planck's quantum of action is precisely
>  h = 2pirmc', in which m is the weight of an electron and
> r is the radius of its orbital path in an H atom.
>
> glird

By 'no' I meant, excluding variations of the order alpha (1/137) or
higher. Sommerfeld's 1916 theory included SRT effects & came out with
the same results as Dirac's relativistic electron theory - an
embarrassing 'coincidence' for those who believed the 'Old QM' was
wrong.
From: BURT on 18 Feb 2010 14:46
Near light speed heat is the closest you can get to this topic title.

Mitch Raemsch
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