Explain USB info in Device Manager ???? [Hardware]

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From: spamme0 on 3 Sep 2009 02:38

Paul wrote:

Is there any way to FORCE the computer to use the usb 2.0 enhanced host
controller?

I've got a Fry's Great Quality ZX-5360 laptop.
Has the VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
I don't have the recovery disks.
Fry's can't support it.
ECS can't support it.
VIA drivers don't help.
I've even tried several other related drivers with no success.
I get no ENHANCED in the device manager list.
No usb 2.0 speed.
"this device can perform faster" dialog when plugging in a 2.0 device.
I have not reloaded XP because there's licensed software on it that I
don't want to lose.

Is there any way to FORCE the computer to use the high speed drivers?

Thanks, mike

> George(a)here.com wrote:
>> I have a Jetway K8M8MSR2 motherboard. It has 6 total USB ports on the
>> rear, none on front. 4 ports are on-board, whilst 2 ports are on a
>> separate mounting connected to a motherboard header. The computer is
>> connected to a IOGEAR GCMP1764 4-computer KVM. It has a keyboard,
>> mouse and a EPSON R300 printer connected to its USB's.
>>
>>
>> This is what Device Manager displays:
>>
>> UNIVERSAL SERIAL BUS CONTROLLERS
>> GENERIC USB HUB
>> USB COMPOSITE DEVICE
>> USB COMPOSITE DEVICE
>> USB MASS STORAGE DEVICE
>> USB PRINTING SUPPORT
>> USB ROOT HUB
>> USB ROOT HUB
>> USB ROOT HUB
>> USB ROOT HUB
>> USB ROOT HUB VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
>> VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
>> VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
>> VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
>> VIA USB 2.0 ENHANCED HOST CONTROLLER
>>
>> I understand which entry signifies that I have USB2, although I do not
>> know if all USB ports are USB2. I fail to comprehend how I have five
>> 'USB ROOT HUB' entries - I think I should have six.
>>
>> Interestingly, when I turned off the Epson R300 printer, these entries
>> disappeared:
>> USB COMPOSITE DEVICE
>> USB MASS STORAGE DEVICE
>> USB PRINTING SUPPORT
>>
>> How is it that a printer is 'mass storage'?
>> What is the other 'USB COMPOSITE DEVICE'?
>> What is the 'GENERIC USB HUB'?
>> Are the four 'VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER'
>> entries for the four on-board USB's? Why them and not the other two?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>
> A "Composite" device, hides other USB devices. I don't know how to
> draw the figure correctly, but it kinda looks like this.
>
> Computer_Port ------------ Composite_Device ------ (Printing Part)
> ------ (Mass Storage part)
> ------ (Scanner, if
> there is one in the printer)
>
> So the Composite report, tells the enumeration process, there is more than
> one thing inside the peripheral.
>
> These five entries, are "logic blocks" and not "ports". That is why the
> number
> of items here, does not match the total ports available on the motherboard.
>
> VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
> VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
> VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
> VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
> VIA USB 2.0 ENHANCED HOST CONTROLLER
>
> A USB port on the computer, can run at USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 rates.
> That means a port, needs a connection to a USB 1.1 logic block and
> a USB 2.0 logic block. Like this
>
> USB_1.1_logic --\ (Switch)
> \
> x------ Computer_Port <----- Peripheral
>
> USB_2.0_logic --
>
> The switch is something used, to select one or the other
> of the two logic blocks. During the initial startup of the
> port, there may be a short interval where the interface runs
> at one speed, and then switches to the other speed, based
> on the information enumerated.
>
> Each "VIA REV 5" block, supports two ports. Four of them support
> up to eight ports total.
>
> The "ENHANCED" entry in this case, supports eight ports. That
> means all ports connect to the same shared logic block. While it
> is not normally an issue, that also means the 480 megabits/sec
> of data transport capability (60MB/sec) is shared by all eight
> ports. If four USB external hard drives were reading files
> at the same time, each could get at most 15MB/sec, due to the
> sharing. This might be an issue, if for example, you were attempting
> to run a lot of web cameras.
>
> The "GENERIC USB HUB" could be inside the KVM. I don't know
> why you have two COMPOSITE devices. I would have expected the
> printer to be complex enough, to use one. I don't know if the
> KVM needs to hide something or not.
>
> If you want to get more data from your USB devices, this utility
> will report what is connected directly to the computer, but
> it doesn't attempt to enumerate the whole USB tree. Click any
> one of the dated links here, to start a download of UVCView. The
> archive site is necessary, as Microsoft no longer offers this
> file for download.
>
> http://web.archive.org/*/http://download.microsoft.com/download/e/b/a/eba1050f-a31d-436b-9281-92cdfeae4b45/UVCView.x86.exe
>
>
> The reasons a printer may have "USB Mass Storage" can be two-fold.
> Some printers support printing files on a USB stick. You can plug
> in a USB stick, and via the printer control panel, select things
> to print.
>
> Some USB devices, can contain Mass Storage for the purpose of
> holding driver software. The problem with the concept, is
> that it may only support a couple OSes, and may fail if say
> the item is plugged into a Mac or a Sun computer running Solaris.
>
> Paul

From: Paul on 3 Sep 2009 03:44

spamme0 wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
> Is there any way to FORCE the computer to use the usb 2.0 enhanced host
> controller?
>
> I've got a Fry's Great Quality ZX-5360 laptop.
> Has the VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
> I don't have the recovery disks.
> Fry's can't support it.
> ECS can't support it.
> VIA drivers don't help.
> I've even tried several other related drivers with no success.
> I get no ENHANCED in the device manager list.
> No usb 2.0 speed.
> "this device can perform faster" dialog when plugging in a 2.0 device.
> I have not reloaded XP because there's licensed software on it that I
> don't want to lose.
>
> Is there any way to FORCE the computer to use the high speed drivers?
>
> Thanks, mike
>

As of WinXP SP1, Microsoft took control of providing USB2 drivers.
That means the hardware manufacturers were prevented from doing so,
by means of the terms of some license.

The first thing to check, is the BIOS settings. Check to see if USB2
is enabled there.

If I look at my Enhanced entry, the drivers used are

usbehci.sys
usbhub.sys
usbport.sys
hccoin.dll
usbui.dll

These are all on my WinXP installer CD. The files on there are compressed,
and Microsoft changes the last character to an underscore. So, you'd be
looking for usbehci.sy_ for example.

If I look in C:\WINDOWS\inf\usbport.inf, I can see

%PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&REV_51.DeviceDesc%=EHCI.Dev,PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&REV_51

so again, the INF file provided with Windows, is looking for VEN 1106
and DEV 3104, which is the VIA USB2 thing.

This is on a system with WinXP SP3.

So something is preventing that device from being detected. I'd start
with the BIOS. I'm not enough of a Windows guy, to be able to tell you
what to look at next, if the BIOS is OK.

When new hardware is installed, you may see some messages at the end of
"setupapi.log". This is a small sample for VIA USB2 (slightly edited to
avoid line wrap).

#-019 Searching for hardware ID(s): pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&subsys_31041849&rev_90,
pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&subsys_31041849,
pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&cc_0c0320,
pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&cc_0c03
#-018 Searching for compatible ID(s): pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&rev_90,
pci\ven_1106&dev_3104,
pci\ven_1106&cc_0c0320,
pci\ven_1106&cc_0c03,
pci\ven_1106,pci\cc_0c0320,pci\cc_0c03
#-198 Command line processed: "C:\WINDOWS\system32\mmc.exe" C:\WINDOWS\system32\devmgmt.msc /s
#I063 Selected driver installs from section [EHCI.Dev] in "c:\windows\inf\usbport.inf".
#I320 Class GUID of device remains: {36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000}.
#I060 Set selected driver.

You could also check hidden devices in Device Manager, but I don't know
if a broken USB entry would end up there or not.

Paul

From: Paul on 3 Sep 2009 03:54

From: spamme0 on 5 Sep 2009 09:54

Paul wrote:
> spamme0 wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>> Is there any way to FORCE the computer to use the usb 2.0 enhanced
>> host controller?
>>
>> I've got a Fry's Great Quality ZX-5360 laptop.
>> Has the VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
>> I don't have the recovery disks.
>> Fry's can't support it.
>> ECS can't support it.
>> VIA drivers don't help.
>> I've even tried several other related drivers with no success.
>> I get no ENHANCED in the device manager list.
>> No usb 2.0 speed.
>> "this device can perform faster" dialog when plugging in a 2.0 device.
>> I have not reloaded XP because there's licensed software on it that I
>> don't want to lose.
>>
>> Is there any way to FORCE the computer to use the high speed drivers?
>>
>> Thanks, mike
>>
>
> As of WinXP SP1, Microsoft took control of providing USB2 drivers.
> That means the hardware manufacturers were prevented from doing so,
> by means of the terms of some license.
>
> The first thing to check, is the BIOS settings. Check to see if USB2
> is enabled there.
>
> If I look at my Enhanced entry, the drivers used are
>
> usbehci.sys
> usbhub.sys
> usbport.sys
> hccoin.dll
> usbui.dll
>
> These are all on my WinXP installer CD. The files on there are compressed,
> and Microsoft changes the last character to an underscore. So, you'd be
> looking for usbehci.sy_ for example.
>
> If I look in C:\WINDOWS\inf\usbport.inf, I can see
>
> %PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&REV_51.DeviceDesc%=EHCI.Dev,PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&REV_51
>
>
> so again, the INF file provided with Windows, is looking for VEN 1106
> and DEV 3104, which is the VIA USB2 thing.
>
> This is on a system with WinXP SP3.
>
> So something is preventing that device from being detected. I'd start
> with the BIOS. I'm not enough of a Windows guy, to be able to tell you
> what to look at next, if the BIOS is OK.
>
> When new hardware is installed, you may see some messages at the end of
> "setupapi.log". This is a small sample for VIA USB2 (slightly edited to
> avoid line wrap).
>
> #-019 Searching for hardware ID(s):
> pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&subsys_31041849&rev_90,
> pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&subsys_31041849,
> pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&cc_0c0320,
> pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&cc_0c03
> #-018 Searching for compatible ID(s): pci\ven_1106&dev_3104&rev_90,
> pci\ven_1106&dev_3104,
> pci\ven_1106&cc_0c0320,
> pci\ven_1106&cc_0c03,
> pci\ven_1106,pci\cc_0c0320,pci\cc_0c03
> #-198 Command line processed: "C:\WINDOWS\system32\mmc.exe"
> C:\WINDOWS\system32\devmgmt.msc /s
> #I063 Selected driver installs from section [EHCI.Dev] in
> "c:\windows\inf\usbport.inf".
> #I320 Class GUID of device remains: {36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000}.
> #I060 Set selected driver.
>
> You could also check hidden devices in Device Manager, but I don't know
> if a broken USB entry would end up there or not.
>
> Paul

Thanks,
Device manager says the usb port is vendor 1106 device 3038
which is listed as a usb1.1 controller.

But the computer spec swears that the ports are usb2.0.
There's even a FAQ entry on the Fry's site that confirms that
the ports are USB2.0 but you have to set the USB mode in the bios
to Auto, which I have done. Tried all possible usb settings in the bios.

The obvious conclusion is that Fry's lied about the spec.

I can't make Knoppix run on this system. It doesn't like the
display and I'm too inexperienced to know why.
But Puppy Linux runs. When I plug in a usb2 flash drive,
dmesg says "new usb full speed device detected".
Puppy doesn't have lsusb.

Oh, well...
thanks, mike

From: Paul on 5 Sep 2009 21:44

spamme0 wrote:
>
> Thanks,
> Device manager says the usb port is vendor 1106 device 3038
> which is listed as a usb1.1 controller.
>
> But the computer spec swears that the ports are usb2.0.
> There's even a FAQ entry on the Fry's site that confirms that
> the ports are USB2.0 but you have to set the USB mode in the bios
> to Auto, which I have done. Tried all possible usb settings in the bios.
>
> The obvious conclusion is that Fry's lied about the spec.
>
> I can't make Knoppix run on this system. It doesn't like the
> display and I'm too inexperienced to know why.
> But Puppy Linux runs. When I plug in a usb2 flash drive,
> dmesg says "new usb full speed device detected".
> Puppy doesn't have lsusb.
>
> Oh, well...
> thanks, mike

In your first post, you claimed Device Manager had

VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
VIA REV 5 OR LATER USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER
VIA USB 2.0 ENHANCED HOST CONTROLLER

The last entry, means all ports should have USB 2.0 capability.
If you check details on that last entry, is the device working ?

These are things to check

1) BIOS setting. And since you have an "Enhanced" entry, we know
that is OK.

2) Properly installed USB stack. That is harder to check. If you
check the "setupapi.log" file, you may see pci\ven_1106&dev_3104
being installed somewhere in that file. Usually there are two
entries next to one another, as it looks to me like the driver
installation happens in two stages. If you see installations
happening on different dates, that could happen if you "reset"
the USB stack. Doing a "reset" of the stack is detailed here.

http://www.usbman.com/Guides/Cleanup%20Device%20Manager%20Safe%20Mode.htm

By removing the entries in Safe Mode, the idea is, that Windows
will reinstall the drivers for USB on the next regular boot.

3) USB2 undoubtedly works at the motherboard level. But any custom
cable assemblies with USB connectors at the end, or even external
hubs or KVMs or the like, may not have USB2 compatible components.
Some wiring assemblies have filter components, which prevent USB2
from working properly. I have a couple Antec computer cases, for
example, where the front ports won't run at USB2 rates (even though
the motherboard does run at USB2). If the hardware attempts it,
all the hardware will see, is CRC errors on the USB packets.
So it would switch back to USB 1.1.

I'd probably agree with calling Fry some bad names, if it weren't for the
fact you have one of these in Device Manager. This tells me your problem
is fixable. They could be totally inept, and install filtering components
on the computer, which prevent proper USB2 signal transmission, but what
are the odds of that happening ? I mean, if they managed to make the
computer work, then they'll also manage to route the USB signals properly
on the motherboard. The motherboard design has a lot of controlled
impedance tracks, and there are lots of other things they could screw
up, which would have caused the computer to crash.

VIA USB 2.0 ENHANCED HOST CONTROLLER

HTH,
Paul

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