FYI: Creating circular references is a perfectly OK thing to do.
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From: Ry Nohryb on 26 Jul 2010 08:16 LET'S MAKE THIS CLEAR: Creating circular references is a perfectly OK thing to do, what's BOTCHED is/are MICROSOFT's INTERNET EXPLORER (all versions): its - their- garbage collector which is broken, and that's what produces the memory leaks. It's not my/your/our fault. It's solely Microsoft's. OTOH, whenever you do extra work and code fixes/workarounds for these - IE's- memory leaks in your page/web app, you're: 1.- Wasting your time. 2.- Wasting (somebody's) money. 3.- Making your code more complex, unnecessarily. 4.- Aggravating the problem, because Microsoft won't ever feel the need to fix what you're fixing for them, and for free. So, if you/we/them don't ever fix their (IE's) bug(s), people will end up, sooner or later, seeing that The Web works well everywhere but in IEs, and either : -Microsoft will have to fix their browsers' bugs -finally-, or, -People will switch to another browser, one that works, of which there are at least four very nice ones: FireFox, Opera, Safari and Chrome. Have a nice day. -- Jorge.
From: David Mark on 26 Jul 2010 08:45 On Jul 26, 8:16 am, Ry Nohryb <jo...(a)jorgechamorro.com> wrote: > LET'S MAKE THIS CLEAR: Stop shouting, Jorge. > > Creating circular references is a perfectly OK thing to do, what's > BOTCHED is/are MICROSOFT's INTERNET EXPLORER (all versions): I assume you are referring to creating circular references involving host objects. And no, reality dictates that is not "perfectly OK". On the contrary, outside of your delusions, it is completely incompetent. > its - > their- garbage collector which is broken, and that's what produces the > memory leaks. Yes. > It's not my/your/our fault. It's solely Microsoft's. Delusion. As a professional you must deal with Internet Explorer in most cases. Crying that it is Microsoft's fault won't help when end- user's complain of reduced performance and crashed browsers. > > OTOH, whenever you do extra work and code fixes/workarounds for these - > IE's- memory leaks in your page/web app, you're: There's no extra work involved. It's far easier to not do something than to do it. ;) > > 1.- Wasting your time. See above. > 2.- Wasting (somebody's) money. See above. > 3.- Making your code more complex, unnecessarily. See above. > 4.- Aggravating the problem, because Microsoft won't ever feel the > need to fix what you're fixing for them, and for free. Pure rubbish. MS doesn't care what you do or do not do, Jorge. > > So, if you/we/them don't ever fix their (IE's) bug(s), people will end > up, sooner or later, seeing that The Web works well everywhere but in > IEs, and either : > > -Microsoft will have to fix their browsers' bugs -finally-, > > or, > > -People will switch to another browser, one that works, of which there > are at least four very nice ones: FireFox, Opera, Safari and Chrome. The flaw in your little scheme is that many people (e.g. corporate users) cannot switch browsers. And, of course, many users don't know what a browser is (they just click the "Internet" icon and a magic Web window appears). > > Have a nice day. Get help, Jorge. Seriously.
From: Richard Cornford on 26 Jul 2010 08:48 On Jul 26, 1:16 pm, Ry Nohryb wrote: > LET'S MAKE THIS CLEAR: Shouting is rarely the prelude to a well reasoned argument. > Creating circular references is a perfectly OK thing to do, > what's BOTCHED is/are MICROSOFT's INTERNET EXPLORER (all > versions): its - their- garbage collector which is broken, > and that's what produces the memory leaks. It's not > my/your/our fault. It's solely Microsoft's. Yes it is. > OTOH, whenever you do extra work and code fixes/workarounds > for these - IE's- memory leaks in your page/web app, you're: > > 1.- Wasting your time. > 2.- Wasting (somebody's) money. > 3.- Making your code more complex, unnecessarily. > 4.- Aggravating the problem, because Microsoft won't ever feel > the need to fix what you're fixing for them, and for free. Write a commercial web application with the intention of selling it to general businesses world-wide and if it doesn't work on IE (including 6) and you likely will be wasting someone's money and your own time. Write an e-commerce system that does not function with IE and you will be turning away a significant proportion of potential business at the door, which is going to cost someone money. Simple commercial truth: there are lots of people using Internet Explorer, and that is a situation that is unlikely to change in the near future. > So, if you/we/them don't ever fix their (IE's) bug(s), people > will end up, sooner or later, seeing that The Web works well > everywhere but in IEs, and either : The only way that can work is if everyone (all web developers, all web authoring software, all web designers/amateurs copy-pasting random scripts, etc.) goes along with your plan. More likely you end up with a situation where for the IE using customer site/wab application A works and site/web application B doesn't, and so their business goes to A. Now supporting IE in addition to other browsers is a selling point, a market exists for the skills to do the job, and people serve that market. > -Microsoft will have to fix their browsers' bugs -finally-, > > or, > > -People will switch to another browser, one that works, of > which there are at least four very nice ones: FireFox, Opera, > Safari and Chrome. Or commercial realities will undermine the unified/centralised/command approach that your strategy calls for and so it will ultimately fail, leaving IE in common use and a pool of web developers suffering for not knowing how to deal with IE. <URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_at_windmills > Richard.
From: Ry Nohryb on 26 Jul 2010 09:01 On Jul 26, 2:45 pm, David Mark <dmark.cins...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Get help, Jorge. Seriously. You know, deep inside, that I'm right on this one. -- Jorge.
From: Ry Nohryb on 26 Jul 2010 09:07
On Jul 26, 2:48 pm, Richard Cornford <Rich...(a)litotes.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_at_windmills> Yeah... resistance is futile ? http://google.com/images?q=Resistance+is+futile+microsoft -- Jorge. |