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From: Rich Grise on 6 Jul 2006 12:01 On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:41:25 -0400, Mike Monett wrote: > http://www.appliedozone.com/pz_series.html > > However, I was under the impression that UV was not a very efficient method > of making ozone, especially considering it has to make enough to treat an > entire pool. FWIW, I have a bulk EPROM eraser, with about a 9" "germicidal" bulb, and when it's running, I can smell the ozone. I can also sometimes smell ozone when I'm walking past one of the weldors, but since they're using inert- gas shielded arcs, I'm surmising that the ozone is made by the UV from the arc dissociating some O2 in the air, like in the stratosphere. :-) Cheers! Rich
From: Sergey Kubushin on 6 Jul 2006 13:44 Rich Grise <richgrise(a)example.net> wrote: > On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:44:47 -0400, Mike Monett wrote: >> Sergey Kubushin <ksi(a)koi8.net> wrote: >> >>> However I'm seriously considering building my own ozonator with those >>> lamps. They seem to be available and they are relatively cheap. >> >> I was under the impression UV couldn't make a very strong ozone >> concentration, and you needed corona discharge to reach 3% or more. Is >> there a special reason you want to use lamps besides cost and availability? >> > > I can't imagine how lamps can make ozone in liquid water, no matter what > the wavelength, or transparency of the envelope. Maybe it's just > germicidal lamps and the water goes through the chamber and gets > disinfected by the UV on its way through. > > The fact that he says he had to start digging, just to replace a > couple of germidicadal lamps, sounds a little suspicious to me. UV lamps don't make ozone in liquid water. You've never seen a pool, have you? Ozonator is a simple closed box with one or more ozone producing bulbs. It has a hole at one end where it takes air and a fitting with a pipe on the opposite end. Something (pool pump, venturi injector etc.) sucks air through that pipe and injects it into water flow. So when pump is on it makes air flow through the ozonator and to the water. Ozonator is connected in parallel with the pump. Two 30" 40W High Ozone bulbs generate something like 2-3 grams of ozone per hour. Pump runs for approximately half a day every day. That is enough to prevent algae growth. It does really work and two months without ozone make it flourish despite intensive chlorine treatment and lots of algaecides. --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
From: Sergey Kubushin on 6 Jul 2006 13:50 Mike Monett <No(a)email.adr> wrote: > Rich Grise <richgrise(a)example.net> wrote: > >> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:44:47 -0400, Mike Monett wrote: >>> Sergey Kubushin <ksi(a)koi8.net> wrote: >>> >>>> However I'm seriously considering building my own ozonator with >>>> those lamps. They seem to be available and they are relatively >>>> cheap. >>> >>> I was under the impression UV couldn't make a very strong ozone >>> concentration, and you needed corona discharge to reach 3% or more. >>> Is there a special reason you want to use lamps besides cost and >>> availability? > >> I can't imagine how lamps can make ozone in liquid water, no matter >> what the wavelength, or transparency of the envelope. Maybe it's just >> germicidal lamps and the water goes through the chamber and gets >> disinfected by the UV on its way through. > >> The fact that he says he had to start digging, just to replace a >> couple of germidicadal lamps, sounds a little suspicious to me. >> >> Thanks, >> Rich > > You are right, UV germicidal lamps are used to treat the water directly. > Unfortunately, the combination of low power and short contact time means > they are often not very effective. I have seen the cartridges you have to > replace periodically jammed full of bacteria. Apparently they were > sunbathing in the light:) > > However, Sergey's application appears to be different. According to this > url, air is passed over the bulb then the ozone is injected into the water: > > http://www.appliedozone.com/pz_series.html Exactly. That direct UV treatment with UV-C might be enough for an aquarium or may be a small spa. It doesn't work at all for big pools. > However, I was under the impression that UV was not a very efficient method > of making ozone, especially considering it has to make enough to treat an > entire pool. Nope, they are fine. And this is not supposed to be a "shock" treatment, it's a long process... Pump runs for circa 12 hours every day so does ozon generator so after a couple of weeks there is enough ozone in the pool to prevent algae appearance. --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
From: Mike Monett on 6 Jul 2006 14:15 Sergey Kubushin <ksi(a)koi8.net> wrote: > Nope, they are fine. And this is not supposed to be a "shock" > treatment, it's a long process... Pump runs for circa 12 hours every > day so does ozon generator so after a couple of weeks there is enough > ozone in the pool to prevent algae appearance. Well, I'm glad you are happy it seems to be working. But there is no ozone in the water. The half-life of ozone in water is measured in minutes. Many municipalities now use high concentrations of ozone instead of chlorine to kill bacteria in drinking water. Since the ozone decomposes back into oxygen so rapidly, the ozone has no residual disinfecting power. As a consequence, the EPA has dictated that municipalities must start using chloramines, which is chlorine combined with ammonia. This is a long- lasting disinfectant, but it wreaks havoc with boilers and other processes that require pure water. Ontario limits the chloramines to about 4%. Some other states have limts that may go as high as 6%. This is a lot of chloramine. Ordinary household bleach is 5.25% by weight. The problem is chloramines are difficult to detect unless you use a total chlorine test. The are difficult to remove, and distilling and ion exchange has no effect. Apparently the only way to remove them is with fresh activated charcoal, which doesn't last long and is very expensive. Regards, Mike Monett
From: Sergey Kubushin on 6 Jul 2006 14:26
Mike Monett <No(a)email.adr> wrote: > Sergey Kubushin <ksi(a)koi8.net> wrote: > >> Nope, they are fine. And this is not supposed to be a "shock" >> treatment, it's a long process... Pump runs for circa 12 hours every >> day so does ozon generator so after a couple of weeks there is enough >> ozone in the pool to prevent algae appearance. > > Well, I'm glad you are happy it seems to be working. But there is no ozone > in the water. The half-life of ozone in water is measured in minutes. > > Many municipalities now use high concentrations of ozone instead of > chlorine to kill bacteria in drinking water. Since the ozone decomposes > back into oxygen so rapidly, the ozone has no residual disinfecting power. I haven't seen a trace of algae when this thing were working. And I even wasn't that hard on chemicals. Now, when it's dead for something like 2 months, I have a substantial algae growth, with green spots on pool wals that I can't even remove despite weekly chlorine "shock" treatments, heavy algaecide usage and lot of other efforts. Yes, I do know ozone is unstable. But injecting ozone in the pool water for a couple of weeks gets rid of that nasty vegetation. I had not read it in advertizements, I can clearly see it in my own backyard. --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ****************************************************************** |