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From: John O'Flaherty on 29 Jun 2010 09:31
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:49:15 -0400, Jerry Avins <jya(a)ieee.org> wrote:

>On 6/29/2010 7:43 AM, Rune Allnor wrote:
>> On 29 Jun, 05:42, robert bristow-johnson<r...(a)audioimagination.com>
>> wrote:
>>> i just connect the carb to my butthole with a tube. all the natural
>>> gas i need to run my car.
>>
>> Disregarding the implementational aspects of that particular
>> approach: What numbers apply? How large quantities of these
>> gases are emitted per hour or day? How far would a car be able
>> to run on the quantity of gas emitted by one person in one day?
>>
>> I never cease to be astonished by the advocates' of such approaces
>> neglection of these kinds of numbers...
>
>Actually, Robert has a pet cow.

As long as he has a petcock ... and a working BOP.

--
John
From: Clay on 29 Jun 2010 09:53
On Jun 29, 7:43 am, Rune Allnor <all...(a)tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
> On 29 Jun, 05:42, robert bristow-johnson <r...(a)audioimagination.com>
> wrote:
>
> > i just connect the carb to my butthole with a tube.  all the natural
> > gas i need to run my car.
>
> Disregarding the implementational aspects of that particular
> approach: What numbers apply? How large quantities of these
> gases are emitted per hour or day? How far would a car be able
> to run on the quantity of gas emitted by one person in one day?
>
> I never cease to be astonished by the advocates' of such approaces
> neglection of these kinds of numbers...
>
> Rune

This brings to question that if a Holstein is the best producer of
milk, which breed is the best producer of gas? Especially when you
want to figure gas produced per hectare grazed.

Clay
From: Rune Allnor on 29 Jun 2010 10:49
On 28 Jun, 23:45, ".." <sustainable.future...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> A lot
> of methane (natural gas) is found as shale gas,
> a lot more will come from methane hidrates.

Hmmm...

I don't know what the OP intends to suggest, but there are
several problems with at least shallow gas, and possibly
also hydrates. Shallow gas deposits tend to exist in rather
fragile states of equilibrium. The gas excerts a pressure
on the surrounding unconsolidated sediments, that keep the
sediments in place; the sediments in turn containing the
gas by excerting pressure.

Disturb that equilibrium in any way - either by poking the
sediments with e.g. a drill, or by draining gas - and all
hell is likely to break loose. Huge areas of sea floor
in regions known for the shallow gas, contain pock marks /
craters caused by gas being released from below the sea floor.

Gas hydrates might be more stable than free gas, but much
the same objections apply: They are stable as long as they
are not disturbed. If disturbed, it's anyone's guess what
might happen.

Rune
From: Jerry Avins on 29 Jun 2010 11:47
On 6/29/2010 10:49 AM, Rune Allnor wrote:
> On 28 Jun, 23:45, ".."<sustainable.future...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> A lot
>> of methane (natural gas) is found as shale gas,
>> a lot more will come from methane hidrates.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> I don't know what the OP intends to suggest, but there are
> several problems with at least shallow gas, and possibly
> also hydrates. Shallow gas deposits tend to exist in rather
> fragile states of equilibrium. The gas excerts a pressure
> on the surrounding unconsolidated sediments, that keep the
> sediments in place; the sediments in turn containing the
> gas by excerting pressure.
>
> Disturb that equilibrium in any way - either by poking the
> sediments with e.g. a drill, or by draining gas - and all
> hell is likely to break loose. Huge areas of sea floor
> in regions known for the shallow gas, contain pock marks /
> craters caused by gas being released from below the sea floor.
>
> Gas hydrates might be more stable than free gas, but much
> the same objections apply: They are stable as long as they
> are not disturbed. If disturbed, it's anyone's guess what
> might happen.

All hell *has* broken loose.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100211211442.htm has been
going on for years and will likely continue for many more.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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From: steve on 29 Jun 2010 13:44
On Jun 29, 10:49 am, Rune Allnor <all...(a)tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
> On 28 Jun, 23:45, ".." <sustainable.future...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  A lot
> > of methane (natural gas) is found as shale gas,
> > a lot more will come from methane hidrates.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> I don't know what the OP intends to suggest, but there are
> several problems with at least shallow gas,

good think the USA gas is mile+ deep...

anyway, in NE USA area, people can light their faucets supplied from
well water, shallow gas has been escaping for eons



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