GETTING RID OF EINSTEIN RELATIVITY
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From: Henri Wilson on 22 Aug 2007 17:21 On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 00:18:17 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+spr(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote: >HW@....(Henri Wilson) wrote in >news:u4umc39hpp2902dsddk0ciepchnnb6g7h5(a)4ax.com: > >> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:20:34 +0000 (UTC), bz >> <bz+spr(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote: >> >>>HW@....(Henri Wilson) wrote in >>>news:a3fhc3l76g5b3vvi8pqgd11ruc28it495u(a)4ax.com: >>> >>>> >>>> George, to change the subject slightly, I was thinking yesterday as I >>>> was fixing a microwave oven, "what role do photons play in a 1000mhz >>>> 10KV AC field between two electrodes?" There seems little similarity >>>> between a single photon arriving on Earth from a very distant star and >>>> the wave nature of any AC field. >>> >>>Although the 60 Hz AC driving the magnetron may peak in the KV, the >>>'photons' at 1 GHz have only 4.136E-6 eV of energy. >>>The magnetron does not depend on the field being AC. The microwave just >>>uses the magnetron as both a rectifier and a microwave oscillator. The >>>magnetron just depends on a high voltage to drive the electrons along >>>the spiral path from the cathode to the anode and the motion of the >>>electron along that path excites oscillatory currents in the ring of >>>cavities around the outside of the magnetron. Output is tapped off from >>>one of those cavities. >>> >>>Semi conductors can generate the same wavelength while using a very low >>>voltage. >>> >>>By the way, the path the electron takes, the fact that microwaves are >>>generated by the motion of the electrons, and the length of time it >>>takes for the electrons to spiral out from cathode to anode are all >>>inconsistent with BaTH. >> >> I was asking what role PHOTONS play, not electrons... > >You missed the answer that was given, "the photons at 1 GHz have only >4.136e-6 eV of energy." >That is the role they play. > >If you want more about those photons, Each one carries a small amount of >the energy (about 1 KW) out of the magnetron. > >The oscillating field in that resonant cavity mentioned earlier is coupled >into the waveguide that leads to the 'heating area' where those photons >excite vibrations in the water molecules in the food, heating the food. > >And as I said, the path the electrons take, the fact that microwaves are >gnerated by the motions of the electrons and the length of time it takes >for the electrons to spiral out from the cathode to the anode are all >inconsistent with BaTH. Are you saying that the electrons travel right across the cavity emitting photons as they accelerate? www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm The difference between a preacher and a used car salesman is that the latter at least has a product to sell.
From: Henri Wilson on 22 Aug 2007 17:27 On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:52:44 -0700, George Dishman <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >Henri Wilson wrote: >> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:35:36 +0100, "George Dishman" <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >"Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message news:ptfhc3pa7593cf68abm3qdgoj29if09ftn(a)4ax.com... >> >> On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:26:21 +0100, "George Dishman" <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>"Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message news:b6qec3dg4nkf9lses1v3stns1acfrq338c(a)4ax.com... >> >>>> On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:01:01 +0100, "George Dishman" <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> >>>>>> You haven't examined many at all George. I've looked at hundreds... >> >>>>> >> >>>>>You have looked at hundreds - and always modelled >> >>>>>the temperature variation wrongly thinking it was >> >>>>>that caused by ballistic effects. >> >>>> >> >>>> YOU certainly do not know the true temperature variation. >> >>> >> >>>I'm not a professional astronomer, but they DO know >> >>>and I can understand the papers. Typically the >> >>>variation is ~1000K. >> >> >> >> :) >> >> Calculated from brightness changes and Planck curve mode shift. >> > >> >Calculated from _relative_ changes hence any >> >ballistic effects cancel, the temperature >> >determine by that method is equally valid for >> >ballistic theory. >> >> No they are not. > >Yes they are Henry, all your ballistic effects are >frequency independent, and you know that or you >would have attempt to say _why_ not. Don't waste >our time by staling with knee-jerk denials. > >> >>>You're the one claiming to be able to model the >> >>>curve Henry, I'll just keep pointing out that >> >>>you cannot do so without proving that the cause >> >>>is VDoppler, not ADoppler which is why you always >> >>>refuse to make the attempt. >> >> >> >> George, if I thought it would be of any use, I would try to explain >> >> ADoppler to >> >> you..... but I see you mind is closed. >> > >> >You forget it was I who had to tell you the >> >ADoppler equation, you couldn't work it out >> >for yourself. I know the effects far better >> >than you. >> >> You don't even understand the role of emission delay time. > >Yes I do, but you told me you omitted it from your >program because it is negligible. No. I omitted the travel time across the orbit. >> You don't include da/dt... > >If you understood schoolboy calculus, you would >know that da/dt has no effect. It has a huge effect on the brightness curve shape. >George www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm The difference between a preacher and a used car salesman is that the latter at least has a product to sell.
From: bz on 22 Aug 2007 18:55 HW@....(Henri Wilson) wrote in news:j1apc3lg5apq7korvk22n38lme7u12pvuc(a)4ax.com: >>The oscillating field in that resonant cavity mentioned earlier is >>coupled into the waveguide that leads to the 'heating area' where those >>photons excite vibrations in the water molecules in the food, heating >>the food. >> >>And as I said, the path the electrons take, the fact that microwaves are >>generated by the motions of the electrons and the length of time it >>takes for the electrons to spiral out from the cathode to the anode are >>all inconsistent with BaTH. > > Are you saying that the electrons travel right across the cavity > emitting photons as they accelerate? Not quite. I am saying that they spiral outward from the cathode, which is located in the center of the 'main cavity'. The magnetic field (that's why it is called a magnetron) forces the electrons to spiral rather than traveling 'right across the cavity'. The magnetic lines of force are parallel to the cathode. If you draw a picture of the anode as a circle, the dot in the center of the circle is the cathode and the magnetic lines of force go from above the paper to below the paper. Around the outside, there are a series of cavities in the anode. There are small gaps in the anode that allow the main cavity to 'communicate' with the small cavities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Resonant_Cavity_Magnetron_Diagram.png THOSE cavities are resonant at 1000 MHz (1 GHz) [not mhz as George keeps trying to tell you]. The electrons transfer energy into the cavities, like air blowing over the hole in a flute. Those cavities 'ring' at 1000 MHz. One of the cavities has a probe that couples energy into the wave guide. The 1000 MHz photons don't really exist until they are launched from the 'transmitting antenna' end of the wave guide. Before that, you just have electric and magnetic fields traveling along together. Each photons carries 6.625e-25 Joules of energy so you create 1.5E25 photons per second when you are nuking your hardboiled eggs. Each photon has a wavelength of 11.8 inches. I used to fix radars for a living. -- bz please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. bz+spr(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
From: George Dishman on 23 Aug 2007 04:48 "Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message news:keapc39d4c5rnr6i436g0n1bg9vns5hc4a(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:52:44 -0700, George Dishman > <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>Henri Wilson wrote: >>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:35:36 +0100, "George Dishman" >>> <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: .... >>> >You forget it was I who had to tell you the >>> >ADoppler equation, you couldn't work it out >>> >for yourself. I know the effects far better >>> >than you. >>> >>> You don't even understand the role of emission delay time. >> >>Yes I do, but you told me you omitted it from your >>program because it is negligible. > > No. I omitted the travel time across the orbit. I thought that was what you meant by "emission delay time". If not, what are you referring to? >>> You don't include da/dt... >> >>If you understood schoolboy calculus, you would >>know that da/dt has no effect. > > It has a huge effect on the brightness curve shape. None at all. I set you a simple algebra problem in another post. Do that and you will learn why. George
From: Henri Wilson on 23 Aug 2007 20:09
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:55:25 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+spr(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote: >HW@....(Henri Wilson) wrote in >news:j1apc3lg5apq7korvk22n38lme7u12pvuc(a)4ax.com: > >>>The oscillating field in that resonant cavity mentioned earlier is >>>coupled into the waveguide that leads to the 'heating area' where those >>>photons excite vibrations in the water molecules in the food, heating >>>the food. >>> >>>And as I said, the path the electrons take, the fact that microwaves are >>>generated by the motions of the electrons and the length of time it >>>takes for the electrons to spiral out from the cathode to the anode are >>>all inconsistent with BaTH. >> >> Are you saying that the electrons travel right across the cavity >> emitting photons as they accelerate? > >Not quite. I am saying that they spiral outward from the cathode, which is >located in the center of the 'main cavity'. The magnetic field (that's why >it is called a magnetron) forces the electrons to spiral rather than >traveling 'right across the cavity'. The magnetic lines of force are >parallel to the cathode. If you draw a picture of the anode as a circle, >the dot in the center of the circle is the cathode and the magnetic lines >of force go from above the paper to below the paper. > >Around the outside, there are a series of cavities in the anode. There are >small gaps in the anode that allow the main cavity to 'communicate' with >the small cavities. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Resonant_Cavity_Magnetron_Diagram.png >THOSE cavities are resonant at 1000 MHz (1 GHz) [not mhz as George keeps >trying to tell you]. OK >The electrons transfer energy into the cavities, like air blowing over the >hole in a flute. Those cavities 'ring' at 1000 MHz. >One of the cavities has a probe that couples energy into the wave guide. >The 1000 MHz photons don't really exist until they are launched from the >'transmitting antenna' end of the wave guide. Before that, you just have >electric and magnetic fields traveling along together. So what is a 'field' made of bob? >Each photons carries 6.625e-25 Joules of energy so you create 1.5E25 >photons per second when you are nuking your hardboiled eggs. Each photon >has a wavelength of 11.8 inches. That still doesn't really tell us much about how the photons actually originate or what they are doing whilst still inside the cavity. What makes a 1GHz photon different from a gamma particle? >I used to fix radars for a living. I hope it didn't damage your brain.. www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm The difference between a preacher and a used car salesman is that the latter at least has a product to sell. |