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From: John Larkin on 5 Aug 2010 11:25
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:50:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:01:04 -0400, John Ferrell
>> <jferrell13(a)triad.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I smell a business opportunity for a younger Techie.
>> >
>> >In a few years there will be a supply of these things around that will
>> >not have a market value that exceeds the cost of a new set of
>> >batteries. A replacement power system that costs less than a battery
>> >set may do well.
>> >
>> >Watch out for new laws that may restrict such things. A niche may
>> >exist under all circumstances. Any one for Steam Power? After all the
>> >Stanley Steamer held speed records for a long time!
>> >
>>
>> As someone has noted, a boiler and a steam engine can be small and
>> very powerful, especially peak power. The problem is the condenser.
>
>
> Too high of an ESR? ;-)

I used to call caps "condensers". I use to say "cps" and "kc" for
frequency, too.

The problem with a steam condenser is that it's big and heavy. If you
dump the steam and don't condense it, like steam trains, you have to
keep refilling with water, and the junk in the water cruds up your
boiler. Steamships have condensers because they have all the ocean as
a heat sink, and welcome the weight low in the hull as ballast.

The 32,000 HP turbine on a LASH ship wasn't much bigger than a beer
barrel. The condenser was as big as a nice house.

John

From: Phil Hobbs on 5 Aug 2010 12:39
John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:50:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:01:04 -0400, John Ferrell
>>> <jferrell13(a)triad.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I smell a business opportunity for a younger Techie.
>>>>
>>>> In a few years there will be a supply of these things around that will
>>>> not have a market value that exceeds the cost of a new set of
>>>> batteries. A replacement power system that costs less than a battery
>>>> set may do well.
>>>>
>>>> Watch out for new laws that may restrict such things. A niche may
>>>> exist under all circumstances. Any one for Steam Power? After all the
>>>> Stanley Steamer held speed records for a long time!
>>>>
>>> As someone has noted, a boiler and a steam engine can be small and
>>> very powerful, especially peak power. The problem is the condenser.
>>
>> Too high of an ESR? ;-)
>
> I used to call caps "condensers". I use to say "cps" and "kc" for
> frequency, too.
>
> The problem with a steam condenser is that it's big and heavy. If you
> dump the steam and don't condense it, like steam trains, you have to
> keep refilling with water, and the junk in the water cruds up your
> boiler. Steamships have condensers because they have all the ocean as
> a heat sink, and welcome the weight low in the hull as ballast.

Plus you lose the heat of vaporization of all that water, which destroys
the thermodynamic efficiency.

>
> The 32,000 HP turbine on a LASH ship wasn't much bigger than a beer
> barrel. The condenser was as big as a nice house.

More expensive than a beer barrel though!


Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
From: JosephKK on 6 Aug 2010 00:08
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:39:24 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:50:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:01:04 -0400, John Ferrell
>>>> <jferrell13(a)triad.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I smell a business opportunity for a younger Techie.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a few years there will be a supply of these things around that will
>>>>> not have a market value that exceeds the cost of a new set of
>>>>> batteries. A replacement power system that costs less than a battery
>>>>> set may do well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Watch out for new laws that may restrict such things. A niche may
>>>>> exist under all circumstances. Any one for Steam Power? After all the
>>>>> Stanley Steamer held speed records for a long time!
>>>>>
>>>> As someone has noted, a boiler and a steam engine can be small and
>>>> very powerful, especially peak power. The problem is the condenser.
>>>
>>> Too high of an ESR? ;-)
>>
>> I used to call caps "condensers". I use to say "cps" and "kc" for
>> frequency, too.
>>
>> The problem with a steam condenser is that it's big and heavy. If you
>> dump the steam and don't condense it, like steam trains, you have to
>> keep refilling with water, and the junk in the water cruds up your
>> boiler. Steamships have condensers because they have all the ocean as
>> a heat sink, and welcome the weight low in the hull as ballast.
>
>Plus you lose the heat of vaporization of all that water, which destroys
>the thermodynamic efficiency.
>
But there are ways to do something about that, and they are done.
>>
>> The 32,000 HP turbine on a LASH ship wasn't much bigger than a beer
>> barrel. The condenser was as big as a nice house.
>
>More expensive than a beer barrel though!
>
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs
From: Phil Hobbs on 6 Aug 2010 01:52
JosephKK wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:39:24 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
<snip>
>>> The problem with a steam condenser is that it's big and heavy. If you
>>> dump the steam and don't condense it, like steam trains, you have to
>>> keep refilling with water, and the junk in the water cruds up your
>>> boiler. Steamships have condensers because they have all the ocean as
>>> a heat sink, and welcome the weight low in the hull as ballast.
>> Plus you lose the heat of vaporization of all that water, which destroys
>> the thermodynamic efficiency.
>>
> But there are ways to do something about that, and they are done.

In an open cycle steam engine? I don't thinks so. If you have an
actual example, do tell!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
From: John Larkin on 6 Aug 2010 12:59
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:39:24 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:50:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:01:04 -0400, John Ferrell
>>>> <jferrell13(a)triad.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I smell a business opportunity for a younger Techie.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a few years there will be a supply of these things around that will
>>>>> not have a market value that exceeds the cost of a new set of
>>>>> batteries. A replacement power system that costs less than a battery
>>>>> set may do well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Watch out for new laws that may restrict such things. A niche may
>>>>> exist under all circumstances. Any one for Steam Power? After all the
>>>>> Stanley Steamer held speed records for a long time!
>>>>>
>>>> As someone has noted, a boiler and a steam engine can be small and
>>>> very powerful, especially peak power. The problem is the condenser.
>>>
>>> Too high of an ESR? ;-)
>>
>> I used to call caps "condensers". I use to say "cps" and "kc" for
>> frequency, too.
>>
>> The problem with a steam condenser is that it's big and heavy. If you
>> dump the steam and don't condense it, like steam trains, you have to
>> keep refilling with water, and the junk in the water cruds up your
>> boiler. Steamships have condensers because they have all the ocean as
>> a heat sink, and welcome the weight low in the hull as ballast.
>
>Plus you lose the heat of vaporization of all that water, which destroys
>the thermodynamic efficiency.
>

The big steamships squeezed every joule they could out of the fuel.
The condensers ran at serious vacuum. The small, relatively cheap HP
turbine made 90% of the power, and its waste steam drove the monstrous
LP turbine. The fuel was blasted into a water-wall boiler, the stack
gas drove a superheater, then the preheat economizer. Low-level steam
drove water feed pumps, domestic water distillers, heaters, all sorts
of stuff. Water chemistry was a project in itself.

The problem is that it was so complex, you needed a lot of smart,
expensive people to run it 24/7. Direct-drive diesels are much
simpler.

John

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Prev: OPERATIONS AND SUPPLY MANAGEMENT 13-E JACOBS Test Bank and solution manual is available for purchase at affordable prices. Contact me at alltestbanks11[at]gmail.com to buy it today. All emails will be answered ASAP.
Next: Frigidaire refrigerator temperature control ?