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From: David Kirkby on 21 Feb 2010 14:32
On Feb 21, 5:45 pm, Richard Fateman <fate...(a)cs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> David Kirkby wrote:

> > between them. Sage aims to integrate them as closely as possible so
> > the capabilities of all of them can be accessed in a reasonably
> > consistent way.
>
> That is perhaps the aim.  You apparently are not in a position to judge
> how effectively the project is moving towards achieving that aim, nor
> how it compares in effectiveness to (say) just using one of its
> components for some set of tasks, nor even the extent to which
> Mathematica covers the same ground as some of the components of Sage.

> RJF

Richard,

One would assume as a professor you are not a total fool, but you
rarely contribute anything useful to any newsgroup. You rarely
contribute anything useful to the sage-devel mailing list. Quite why
you bother subscribing I never know.

You clearly have a vendatta against Sage.

As such, I do not feel I wish to comment any more.

Dave

From: Richard Fateman on 21 Feb 2010 15:55
David Kirkby wrote:

> You clearly have a vendatta against Sage.
What I object to is a view that some people have, that Sage is
necessarily better than things that they do not know about.
It is similar to some peoples' view that programming
language X, the only one they know about, is better than any of
the languages they do not know about.
(For Sage, X=Python).
My contributions to the Sage development list tend to be
expressions of skepticism since it sometimes appears that
the Sage system is making design decisions that have been
shown (historically) to lead to bad situations.
>
> As such, I do not feel I wish to comment any more.

Except you did :)
>
RJF
From: Richard B. Gilbert on 21 Feb 2010 19:46
Richard Fateman wrote:
> David Kirkby wrote:
>
>> You clearly have a vendatta against Sage.
> What I object to is a view that some people have, that Sage is
> necessarily better than things that they do not know about.
> It is similar to some peoples' view that programming
> language X, the only one they know about, is better than any of
> the languages they do not know about.
> (For Sage, X=Python).
> My contributions to the Sage development list tend to be
> expressions of skepticism since it sometimes appears that
> the Sage system is making design decisions that have been
> shown (historically) to lead to bad situations.
>>
>> As such, I do not feel I wish to comment any more.
>
> Except you did :)

There's always hope!

From: Raymond Toy on 22 Feb 2010 00:13
On 2/20/10 8:59 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On Feb 19, 11:25 pm, Raymond Toy <toy.raym...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2/19/10 5:28 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 19, 8:22 pm, Waldek Hebisch <hebi...(a)math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:
>>>> In sci.math.symbolic David Kirkby <drkir...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> There is not much serious maths software for Solaris, and that which
>>>>> does exist, costs a small fortune. In contrast, Sage is free and open-
>>>>> source.
>>
>>>> Dave, it is very nice that you work on porting Sage. But the sentence
>>>> above is misleading. At least FriCAS and Maxima work on Solaris.
>>>> And I think that few other serious open source systems work too.
>>
>>>> Your sentence suggests that up to now only serious systems on
>>>> Solaris were proprietary, which is not the case.
>>
>>>> --
>>>> Waldek Hebisch
>>>> hebi...(a)math.uni.wroc.pl
>>
>>> I take your point - what I said was misleading.
>>
>>> What I meant was there is no general purpose maths package - something
>>> that aims to cover a wide area of mathematics, like Mathematica does
>>> for example. Maxima & FriCAS cover computer algebra only. You can't
>>> use them to plot graphs for example.
>>
>> Maxima can plot 2D and 3D graphs. Maxima can do more than just computer
>> algebra. Since Maxima has its own language, you can make it do whatever
>> you want. Maxima also uses Lisp, so you can do whatever Lisp program
>> you want too.
>>
>> Ray
>
> I was not aware Maxima could plot graphs.
>
> The point about having its own language does not detract from the fact
> that to implement certain things in lisp or Maxima would be a huge
> task. Would it be practical to extend Maxima to have the statistical
> capabilities of R for example? Sage integrates Maxima, R and many
> other packages.

I didn't say it would be easy. But you stated that Maxima "cover[s]
computer algebra only". I merely pointed out that it can do more than
just computer algebra, and since it has a programming language and also
includes Lisp, you can make it do whatever you want, if you were so
inclined.


>
> I'd be keen to hear from anyone who either downloads the Solaris
> binary, or builds the source code on Solaris.

I have a Sparc Solaris 10 machine and could build Sage, but since my
slow Solaris machine takes quite a long time to compile maxima, I'm not
inclined to compile Sage. I could download and run Sage, but since I
don't know anything about it so that might be useful to anyone, unless
you want to know that it at least runs on my machine.

Ray
From: David Kirkby on 22 Feb 2010 07:32
On Feb 22, 5:13 am, Raymond Toy <toy.raym...(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> I didn't say it would be easy.  But you stated that Maxima "cover[s]
> computer algebra only".  I merely pointed out that it can do more than
> just computer algebra, and since it has a programming language and also
> includes Lisp, you can make it do whatever you want, if you were so
> inclined.

Yes, I accept what you are saying.

> > I'd be keen to hear from anyone who either downloads the Solaris
> > binary, or builds the source code on Solaris.
>
> I have a Sparc Solaris 10 machine and could build Sage, but since my
> slow Solaris machine takes quite a long time to compile maxima, I'm not
> inclined to compile Sage.  

Fair enough. Sage does take a time to build.

> I could download and run Sage, but since I
> don't know anything about it so that might be useful to anyone, unless
> you want to know that it at least runs on my machine.
>
> Ray

That would be very useful to know if you have a Solaris 10 system. If
it is running Solaris 9 or older, then it is doubtful it would run at
all, so I would not bother.

Just check first if your system has the 'p7zip' command. If it does,
then download

'sage-4.3.0.1-Solaris-10-SPARC-sun4u-or-sun4v.tar.7z'

from your nearest mirror at http://www.sagemath.org/download-solaris.html

If your Solaris 10 system does not have 'p7zip' then the easiest
solution is probably to download the .gz solution and decompress with
gzip. Unfortunately, that is considerably larger, as p7zip is much
better than bzip2 or gzip at compressing binary files. (For source
files, the gains are far less significant).

Even if you can just type

sage: 1+1

it would be helpful to know. How to install the binary is documented
at http://wiki.sagemath.org/solaris-binaries

Since you know how to use Maxima, the following link explains briefly
how Maxima's capabilities would be used inside Sage:

http://www.sagemath.org/doc/tutorial/interfaces.html

(It mentions there Maxima uses clisp, but it is in fact now using ecl
for the lisp interpreter, not clisp as it used to do. I've asked that
someone correct that).

BTW, you can try out Sage on a Solaris machine at

http://t2nb.math.washington.edu:8000/

but I would like to know if it works on other peoples machines.

It is more hassle running the notebook if you don't have a browser on
the local host, as the default security settings will not allow the
web based interface to work except on the local host. If you only have
access to your Solaris machine via ssh, then don't worry about that.


Dave

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