GUIs - A Modest Proposal
in [Python]
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From: Terry Reedy on 9 Jun 2010 15:50 On 6/9/2010 1:16 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: [re PyGUI] > *Alert* Potentially dumb question following: On the MS Windows platform, > Gtk is not required, just win32? Correct. A windows distribution probably would not include the gtk (or cocoa) versions. And Greg hopes to remove the win32 dependency by calling windows dlls directly with ctypes.
From: rantingrick on 9 Jun 2010 16:01 On Jun 9, 2:42 pm, "Martin v. Loewis" <mar...(a)v.loewis.de> wrote: > I would personally prefer the win32 extensions to be rewritten for use > in core Python. +1 > That is, of course, all off-topic. Not entirely Martin, PyGUI is a real option to consider and PyWin32 is part of that option. Besides PyWin32 should have already been included. And PyWin32 should be standard even though Python support is not standard for Windows sadly:(. PyWin32 has been around for quite some time and has proven to be reliable. And yes it should be a single module "windows" or a "logical" split of sorts.
From: Grant Edwards on 9 Jun 2010 16:24 On 2010-06-09, Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> wrote: > On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:58:26 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > >> We have a problem > > You keep saying that, but you've given no good reasons for why we should > believe you, or what the nature of this problem supposedly is. > > The current situation has broad community support: there's a relatively > lightweight GUI toolkit that ships with Python (Tkinter), even if it's > not beloved by all neither is it especially hated, and an extremely > healthy ecosystem of many alternative GUIs built on top of Qt, wxWindows, > GTK+, and others. Where's the problem? > > > >> So keep the ideas rolling in people. We need to hear from every side of >> this forum. > > I think the only way to end this pointless discussion is this: > > "Hitler would have loved Tkinter!" Yup, I'm pretty sure I heard Glenn Beck say that in a clip I saw on The Daily Show (which is the only time I ever see/hear Glenn Beck). -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Here I am in 53 at B.C. and all I want is a gmail.com dill pickle!!
From: Grant Edwards on 9 Jun 2010 16:34 On 2010-06-09, Martin v. Loewis <martin(a)v.loewis.de> wrote: > Am 09.06.2010 01:54, schrieb Grant Edwards: >> On 2010-06-08, Martin v. Loewis<martin(a)v.loewis.de> wrote: >>> Am 08.06.2010 20:15, schrieb Grant Edwards: >>>> On 2010-06-08, Martin v. Loewis<martin(a)v.loewis.de> wrote: >>>>>> TkInter -> Tcl -> Tk -> Xlib >>>>>> >>>>>> Is the Tcl intepreter really need to use this GUI? Why not: >>>>>> >>>>>> (Pyton ->) Tkinter-API -> Xlib ? >>>>> >>>>> Even if this was possible (which it is not) >>>> >>>> Why is it not possible? It seems to have been done for other >>>> languages. >>> >>> So you don't know for sure? Which implementation specifically >>> do you think of? >> >> There was a Scheme implementation called STk that didn't use Tcl. > > That's not true. See, for example, Src/tk-glue.c. It contains functions like > > static SCM TkResult2Scheme(Tcl_Interp *interp, int objproc) .... > SCM STk_execute_Tcl_lib_cmd(SCM cmd, SCM args, SCM env, int eval_args) > ... > > This looks *exactly* like the approach taken in _tkinter to me. > > One difference seems to be that they include the full source code of > Tcl and Tk with the interpreter, so you don't need to download it > separately. > > The other difference apparently is that they expose Tcl commands as > Scheme functions, so that they can write > > (Tk:pack [Tk:frame w.top :relief "raised" :bd 1] :expand #t :fill "both") > > However, this still uses a Tcl_Interp object during evaluation. Of course you're right. I somehow missed the fact that Tcl was included in the distribution. That and the ability to bind Tk widgets to Scheme "variables" (you didn't have to get/put values) had somehow fooled me into thinking there wasn't a Tcl layer. That said, PerlTk didn't use Tcl did it? -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! When you get your at PH.D. will you get able to gmail.com work at BURGER KING?
From: rantingrick on 9 Jun 2010 17:43
On Jun 9, 3:52 pm, Mark Lawrence <breamore...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > This comes from the bloke who couldn't be bothered to find out how to > download the fixed version of the Windows compiled help file? Ok, so i was a bit miffed about the docs bug and felt the need to vent. Don't tell me you've never griped about anything. ;-) > Our, we, how much have you ever contributed to core versions of Python, > or any third party libraries for that matter? Honestly nothing so far (in the form of code) as it is beyond my skill set at this time, but not much beyond it! Up to this point i have contributed by answering questions on this list and other Python lists. However, i do plan to be a driving force in this community for a very long time to come. I am not here to spout off empty promises and produce no results, i will back them up with code soon enough. Anyone who has followed me over the past few years should know that while i can be at times theatrical, slightly narcissistic, and occasionally belligerent. I am always concerned with moving Python into a better future. I can see myself releasing "Python Modules" and contributing to bug fixes on the "non-core" side of Python in the very near future. I would very much like to be a part of this GUI fix/replacement as it would be a great learning experience. As for the core, i would love to contribute if and when my skills reach that level. But my concern at this point is to contribute where i can. Updating Python's stdlib in a way that will benefit everyone (including myself). And the first step is calling for peoples input. It would be both selfish and unwise for a person to create a module and expect it to be blindly adopted without considering the many other people who belong to this community. This is a community and we need to include as many as we can into the decision process. For the best results one must get supporting and opposing opinions. From that dataset we can put our collective heads together to formulate a solution and finally produce that solution. I will be a part of this solution. I hope you will join in whatever capacity your free time will allow. Even a vote of confidence is a huge step in the right direction. I think you'll agree that Tkinter "as-is" just ain't cutting it. One thing "we" as a community need to do more often is combine our individual strengths into a collective strength that can be harnessed to achieve some long since forgotten goals. Guido has forged the path, we must strive to improve python daily lest his and all your hard work be all for naught. > Still waiting for your contributions, but I expect there's as much > chance of you doing anything as there is of all Arab nations keeping the > piece with Israel, or vice versa. Mark, with those odds you can safely bet on me producing code!! ;-) |