GUIs - A Modest Proposal
in [Python]
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From: Mark Lawrence on 9 Jun 2010 18:20 On 09/06/2010 22:43, rantingrick wrote: > On Jun 9, 3:52 pm, Mark Lawrence<breamore...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> This comes from the bloke who couldn't be bothered to find out how to >> download the fixed version of the Windows compiled help file? > > Ok, so i was a bit miffed about the docs bug and felt the need to > vent. Don't tell me you've never griped about anything. ;-) That's correct. I used to be big headed, but now I'm perfect. :) > >> Our, we, how much have you ever contributed to core versions of Python, >> or any third party libraries for that matter? > > Honestly nothing so far (in the form of code) as it is beyond my skill > set at this time, but not much beyond it! [snip] > Anyone who has followed me over the past few years should know that > while i can be at times theatrical, slightly narcissistic, and > occasionally belligerent. I am always concerned with moving Python > into a better future. > > I can see myself releasing "Python Modules" and contributing to bug > fixes on the "non-core" side of Python in the very near future. I > would very much like to be a part of this GUI fix/replacement as it > would be a great learning experience. As for the core, i would love to > contribute if and when my skills reach that level. But my concern at > this point is to contribute where i can. Updating Python's stdlib in a > way that will benefit everyone (including myself). And the first step > is calling for peoples input. > > It would be both selfish and unwise for a person to create a module > and expect it to be blindly adopted without considering the many other > people who belong to this community. This is a community and we need > to include as many as we can into the decision process. For the best > results one must get supporting and opposing opinions. From that > dataset we can put our collective heads together to formulate a > solution and finally produce that solution. > > I will be a part of this solution. I hope you will join in whatever > capacity your free time will allow. Even a vote of confidence is a > huge step in the right direction. I think you'll agree that Tkinter > "as-is" just ain't cutting it. One thing "we" as a community need to > do more often is combine our individual strengths into a collective > strength that can be harnessed to achieve some long since forgotten > goals. Guido has forged the path, we must strive to improve python > daily lest his and all your hard work be all for naught. The above is certainly brilliant for being so beautifully contradictory, forget programming, move into politics. As an aside, I couldn't care one hoot about the standard Python GUI, let alone two, but it strikes me that you have conveniently ignored Mark Roseman's comments earlier in this thread regarding Tk. I've no idea how much work would be involved for the Python core volunteers in introducing newer versions of Tk, and just maybe they've got more important things to work on, which you might realise if you were to follow the Python bug tracker mailing list. > >> Still waiting for your contributions, but I expect there's as much >> chance of you doing anything as there is of all Arab nations keeping the >> piece with Israel, or vice versa. Blast, peace not piece. > > Mark, with those odds you can safely bet on me producing code!! ;-) After several years I should bloody well hope so. More coding in an IDE and less typing on mailing lists might help. And I'm now laughing over the Windows compiled help file. Mark Lawrence.
From: Steven D'Aprano on 9 Jun 2010 18:32 On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 09:37:25 -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote: > On 09 Jun 2010 06:05:43 GMT > Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> wrote: >> I think the only way to end this pointless discussion is this: >> >> "Hitler would have loved Tkinter!" > > Sorry, "Quirk's Exception" to Godwin's Law says that you can't invoke > Godwin's Law on purpose. I think I need a Downfall video of Hitler discovering Quirk's Exception. -- Steven
From: rantingrick on 9 Jun 2010 18:38 On Jun 9, 5:20 pm, Mark Lawrence <breamore...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Mark, with those odds you can safely bet on me producing code!! ;-) > > After several years I should bloody well hope so. More coding in an IDE > and less typing on mailing lists might help. And I'm now laughing over > the Windows compiled help file. Oh Mark really, is that windows compiled help file thing the best you can come up with? Come on man! There have been far more embarrassing moments than that! I mean, with my record a bing search could have produced better results. Now i'm laughing :D
From: Martin v. Loewis on 9 Jun 2010 19:00 > As an aside, I couldn't care one hoot about the standard Python GUI, let > alone two, but it strikes me that you have conveniently ignored Mark > Roseman's comments earlier in this thread regarding Tk. I've no idea how > much work would be involved for the Python core volunteers in > introducing newer versions of Tk, and just maybe they've got more > important things to work on, which you might realise if you were to > follow the Python bug tracker mailing list. For the record, Python *does* include newer versions of Tk all the time. Tkinter builds with about any Tk version you pick at compile time, so the Linux distributions typically ship Tkinter being bound to recent Tk versions. The same holds for the Windows releases provided on python.org; I update Tk for these for every major Python release (but not for bugfix releases). For OSX, the issue is a little more tricky; you have the choice of either using the Apple-provided Tk version (which gets upgraded with OSX releases), or to install a newer Tk version separately. Regards, Martin
From: Mark Roseman on 9 Jun 2010 19:09
"Martin v. Loewis" <martin(a)v.loewis.de> wrote: > For the record, Python *does* include newer versions of Tk all the time. Martin, just to reinforce the point... developers using Tkinter need to make some fairly minor changes to their application code to truly take advantage of the improvements in recent versions of Tk. Without those app changes, they're not going to see any difference. To quote from the first section of the tutorial at http://www.tkdocs.com > This tutorial is designed to help people get up to speed quickly with > building mainstream desktop graphical user interfaces with Tk, and in > particular Tk 8.5, which is an incredibly significant milestone release. > > The downside is that unless you know one or two particular things, it's > actually not that significant a release; For backwards compatibility reasons, > unless existing programs make a few simple changes, they won't look all that > much different. So while this tutorial will certainly benefit newcomers to > Tk, it will also help existing Tk developers bring their knowledge right up > to date. Mark |