From: BURT on
On Jul 11, 9:44 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 11, 11:31 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 11, 9:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 11, 10:59 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 11, 10:31 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 11, 1:18 pm, NoEinstein <noeinst...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 5, 6:08 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Dear mpc755:  Gravity is:  "Mass proportional forces caused by flowing
> > > > > > ether (energy) that is replenished by the 'hobo' ether carried back
> > > > > > into space by the photons that are constantly being exchanged between
> > > > > > the attracted bodies."  — NoEinstein —
>
> > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > > Yes it does but it is a round geometry of point that flows inward to
> > > > center with a still aether counterpart. There are two sides to space
> > > > and two sides to time. Such is time for GR and SR.
>
> > > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > Matter displaces dark matter.
> > > Dark matter is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> > > The 'displacing back' is pressure exerted by displaced dark matter.
> > > Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity.
>
> > > You mistake the pressure exerted by displaced dark matter for a flow.
>
> > > Gravitation, the 'Dark Matter' Effect and the Fine Structure Constanthttp://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0401047
>
> > > "There we see the first arguments that indicate the logical necessity
> > > for quantum behaviour, at both the spatial level and at the matter
> > > level. There space is, at one of the lowest levels, a quantumfoam
> > > system undergoing ongoing classicalisation. That model suggest that
> > > gravity is caused by matter changing the processing rate of the
> > > informational system that manifests as space, and as a consequence
> > > space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter. However this is not a ‘flow’
> > > of some form of ‘matter’ through space, as previously considered in
> > > the aether models or in the ‘random’ particulate Le Sage kinetic
> > > theory of gravity, rather the flow is an ongoing rearrangement of the
> > > quantum-foam patterns that form space, and indeed only have a
> > > geometrical description at a coarse-grained level. Then the ‘flow’ in
> > > one region is relative only to the patterns in nearby regions, and not
> > > relative to some a priori background geometrical space"
>
> > > What is described as "space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter" is the
> > > pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter towards the matter.
>
> > > "Then the ‘flow’ in one region is relative only to the patterns in
> > > nearby regions" is the pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter
> > > towards the matter and the pressure exerted by the displaced dark
> > > matter in nearby regions towards the matter.
>
> > > Evidence of dark matter displacement:
>
> > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'
> > > hhttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur...
>
> > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the
> > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes
> > > back out."
>
> > > "Astronomers using NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view
> > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two
> > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is
> > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the
> > > water."
>
> > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond.
>
> > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between
> > > two boats. The two boat collision creates a ripple in the water. The
> > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water.
>
> > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > It is possible to flow instantansously in each geometric point. Flow
> > may go nowhere itself but it flows energy through its space-time.
>
> > Mitch Raemsch
>
> There is nothing that flows.  Instead we are simply a part to the
> whole and operate at speeds and delays which have nothing to do with
> c.  This c speed has been mixed up with "seeing" speed- but they are
> certainly not the same thing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Absolutely everything is flowing in some way. Such is time.

Mitch Raemsch
From: YBM on
BURT a �crit :
> On Jul 11, 9:44 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 11, 11:31 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 11, 9:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jul 11, 10:59 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 11, 10:31 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jul 11, 1:18 pm, NoEinstein <noeinst...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Jul 5, 6:08 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear mpc755: Gravity is: "Mass proportional forces caused by flowing
>>>>>>> ether (energy) that is replenished by the 'hobo' ether carried back
>>>>>>> into space by the photons that are constantly being exchanged between
>>>>>>> the attracted bodies." � NoEinstein �
>>>>>> Space does not flow into the Earth.
>>>>> Yes it does but it is a round geometry of point that flows inward to
>>>>> center with a still aether counterpart. There are two sides to space
>>>>> and two sides to time. Such is time for GR and SR.
>>>>> Mitch Raemsch
>>>> Space does not flow into the Earth.
>>>> Matter displaces dark matter.
>>>> Dark matter is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
>>>> The 'displacing back' is pressure exerted by displaced dark matter.
>>>> Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity.
>>>> You mistake the pressure exerted by displaced dark matter for a flow.
>>>> Gravitation, the 'Dark Matter' Effect and the Fine Structure Constanthttp://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0401047
>>>> "There we see the first arguments that indicate the logical necessity
>>>> for quantum behaviour, at both the spatial level and at the matter
>>>> level. There space is, at one of the lowest levels, a quantumfoam
>>>> system undergoing ongoing classicalisation. That model suggest that
>>>> gravity is caused by matter changing the processing rate of the
>>>> informational system that manifests as space, and as a consequence
>>>> space effectively �flows� towards matter. However this is not a �flow�
>>>> of some form of �matter� through space, as previously considered in
>>>> the aether models or in the �random� particulate Le Sage kinetic
>>>> theory of gravity, rather the flow is an ongoing rearrangement of the
>>>> quantum-foam patterns that form space, and indeed only have a
>>>> geometrical description at a coarse-grained level. Then the �flow� in
>>>> one region is relative only to the patterns in nearby regions, and not
>>>> relative to some a priori background geometrical space"
>>>> What is described as "space effectively �flows� towards matter" is the
>>>> pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter towards the matter.
>>>> "Then the �flow� in one region is relative only to the patterns in
>>>> nearby regions" is the pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter
>>>> towards the matter and the pressure exerted by the displaced dark
>>>> matter in nearby regions towards the matter.
>>>> Evidence of dark matter displacement:
>>>> 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'
>>>> hhttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur...
>>>> "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the
>>>> dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes
>>>> back out."
>>>> "Astronomers using NASA�s Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view
>>>> of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two
>>>> galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is
>>>> somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the
>>>> water."
>>>> A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond.
>>>> The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between
>>>> two boats. The two boat collision creates a ripple in the water. The
>>>> ripple occurs because the boats displace water.
>>>> The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> It is possible to flow instantansously in each geometric point. Flow
>>> may go nowhere itself but it flows energy through its space-time.
>>> Mitch Raemsch
>> There is nothing that flows. Instead we are simply a part to the
>> whole and operate at speeds and delays which have nothing to do with
>> c. This c speed has been mixed up with "seeing" speed- but they are
>> certainly not the same thing.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Absolutely everything is flowing in some way. Such is time.

Such is you and your idiocies: flushed out.
From: mpc755 on
On Jul 12, 9:17 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 11, 9:44 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 11, 11:31 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 11, 9:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 11, 10:59 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 11, 10:31 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 11, 1:18 pm, NoEinstein <noeinst...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 5, 6:08 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Dear mpc755:  Gravity is:  "Mass proportional forces caused by flowing
> > > > > > > ether (energy) that is replenished by the 'hobo' ether carried back
> > > > > > > into space by the photons that are constantly being exchanged between
> > > > > > > the attracted bodies."  — NoEinstein —
>
> > > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > > > Yes it does but it is a round geometry of point that flows inward to
> > > > > center with a still aether counterpart. There are two sides to space
> > > > > and two sides to time. Such is time for GR and SR.
>
> > > > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > > Matter displaces dark matter.
> > > > Dark matter is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> > > > The 'displacing back' is pressure exerted by displaced dark matter.
> > > > Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity..
>
> > > > You mistake the pressure exerted by displaced dark matter for a flow.
>
> > > > Gravitation, the 'Dark Matter' Effect and the Fine Structure Constanthttp://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0401047
>
> > > > "There we see the first arguments that indicate the logical necessity
> > > > for quantum behaviour, at both the spatial level and at the matter
> > > > level. There space is, at one of the lowest levels, a quantumfoam
> > > > system undergoing ongoing classicalisation. That model suggest that
> > > > gravity is caused by matter changing the processing rate of the
> > > > informational system that manifests as space, and as a consequence
> > > > space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter. However this is not a ‘flow’
> > > > of some form of ‘matter’ through space, as previously considered in
> > > > the aether models or in the ‘random’ particulate Le Sage kinetic
> > > > theory of gravity, rather the flow is an ongoing rearrangement of the
> > > > quantum-foam patterns that form space, and indeed only have a
> > > > geometrical description at a coarse-grained level. Then the ‘flow’ in
> > > > one region is relative only to the patterns in nearby regions, and not
> > > > relative to some a priori background geometrical space"
>
> > > > What is described as "space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter" is the
> > > > pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter towards the matter.
>
> > > > "Then the ‘flow’ in one region is relative only to the patterns in
> > > > nearby regions" is the pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter
> > > > towards the matter and the pressure exerted by the displaced dark
> > > > matter in nearby regions towards the matter.
>
> > > > Evidence of dark matter displacement:
>
> > > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'
> > > > hhttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur...
>
> > > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the
> > > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes
> > > > back out."
>
> > > > "Astronomers using NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view
> > > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two
> > > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is
> > > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the
> > > > water."
>
> > > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond.
>
> > > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between
> > > > two boats. The two boat collision creates a ripple in the water. The
> > > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water.
>
> > > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > It is possible to flow instantansously in each geometric point. Flow
> > > may go nowhere itself but it flows energy through its space-time.
>
> > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > There is nothing that flows.  Instead we are simply a part to the
> > whole and operate at speeds and delays which have nothing to do with
> > c.  This c speed has been mixed up with "seeing" speed- but they are
> > certainly not the same thing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Absolutely everything is flowing in some way. Such is time.
>
> Mitch Raemsch

Pressure. Not 'flow'. The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is based
upon the dark matter pressure in which it exists.
From: GogoJF on
On Jul 12, 8:46 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 12, 9:17 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 11, 9:44 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 11, 11:31 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 11, 9:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 11, 10:59 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 11, 10:31 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 11, 1:18 pm, NoEinstein <noeinst...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 6:08 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Dear mpc755:  Gravity is:  "Mass proportional forces caused by flowing
> > > > > > > > ether (energy) that is replenished by the 'hobo' ether carried back
> > > > > > > > into space by the photons that are constantly being exchanged between
> > > > > > > > the attracted bodies."  — NoEinstein —
>
> > > > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > > > > Yes it does but it is a round geometry of point that flows inward to
> > > > > > center with a still aether counterpart. There are two sides to space
> > > > > > and two sides to time. Such is time for GR and SR.
>
> > > > > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > > > Matter displaces dark matter.
> > > > > Dark matter is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> > > > > The 'displacing back' is pressure exerted by displaced dark matter.
> > > > > Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity.
>
> > > > > You mistake the pressure exerted by displaced dark matter for a flow.
>
> > > > > Gravitation, the 'Dark Matter' Effect and the Fine Structure Constanthttp://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0401047
>
> > > > > "There we see the first arguments that indicate the logical necessity
> > > > > for quantum behaviour, at both the spatial level and at the matter
> > > > > level. There space is, at one of the lowest levels, a quantumfoam
> > > > > system undergoing ongoing classicalisation. That model suggest that
> > > > > gravity is caused by matter changing the processing rate of the
> > > > > informational system that manifests as space, and as a consequence
> > > > > space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter. However this is not a ‘flow’
> > > > > of some form of ‘matter’ through space, as previously considered in
> > > > > the aether models or in the ‘random’ particulate Le Sage kinetic
> > > > > theory of gravity, rather the flow is an ongoing rearrangement of the
> > > > > quantum-foam patterns that form space, and indeed only have a
> > > > > geometrical description at a coarse-grained level. Then the ‘flow’ in
> > > > > one region is relative only to the patterns in nearby regions, and not
> > > > > relative to some a priori background geometrical space"
>
> > > > > What is described as "space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter" is the
> > > > > pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter towards the matter.
>
> > > > > "Then the ‘flow’ in one region is relative only to the patterns in
> > > > > nearby regions" is the pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter
> > > > > towards the matter and the pressure exerted by the displaced dark
> > > > > matter in nearby regions towards the matter.
>
> > > > > Evidence of dark matter displacement:
>
> > > > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'
> > > > > hhttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur...
>
> > > > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the
> > > > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes
> > > > > back out."
>
> > > > > "Astronomers using NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view
> > > > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two
> > > > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is
> > > > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the
> > > > > water."
>
> > > > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond.
>
> > > > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between
> > > > > two boats. The two boat collision creates a ripple in the water. The
> > > > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water.
>
> > > > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > It is possible to flow instantansously in each geometric point. Flow
> > > > may go nowhere itself but it flows energy through its space-time.
>
> > > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > > There is nothing that flows.  Instead we are simply a part to the
> > > whole and operate at speeds and delays which have nothing to do with
> > > c.  This c speed has been mixed up with "seeing" speed- but they are
> > > certainly not the same thing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Absolutely everything is flowing in some way. Such is time.
>
> > Mitch Raemsch
>
> Pressure. Not 'flow'. The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is based
> upon the dark matter pressure in which it exists.

The Earth is buffeted by our atmosphere. The weather is a result of
this buffet. Inside this sphere certainly has a different flow than
outside the sphere. Inside the sphere is more like pressure. Outside
the sphere is more like flow. What do you think Mitch, mpc755?
From: BURT on
On Jul 12, 6:46 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 12, 9:17 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 11, 9:44 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 11, 11:31 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 11, 9:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 11, 10:59 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 11, 10:31 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 11, 1:18 pm, NoEinstein <noeinst...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 6:08 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Dear mpc755:  Gravity is:  "Mass proportional forces caused by flowing
> > > > > > > > ether (energy) that is replenished by the 'hobo' ether carried back
> > > > > > > > into space by the photons that are constantly being exchanged between
> > > > > > > > the attracted bodies."  — NoEinstein —
>
> > > > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > > > > Yes it does but it is a round geometry of point that flows inward to
> > > > > > center with a still aether counterpart. There are two sides to space
> > > > > > and two sides to time. Such is time for GR and SR.
>
> > > > > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth.
>
> > > > > Matter displaces dark matter.
> > > > > Dark matter is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> > > > > The 'displacing back' is pressure exerted by displaced dark matter.
> > > > > Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity.
>
> > > > > You mistake the pressure exerted by displaced dark matter for a flow.
>
> > > > > Gravitation, the 'Dark Matter' Effect and the Fine Structure Constanthttp://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0401047
>
> > > > > "There we see the first arguments that indicate the logical necessity
> > > > > for quantum behaviour, at both the spatial level and at the matter
> > > > > level. There space is, at one of the lowest levels, a quantumfoam
> > > > > system undergoing ongoing classicalisation. That model suggest that
> > > > > gravity is caused by matter changing the processing rate of the
> > > > > informational system that manifests as space, and as a consequence
> > > > > space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter. However this is not a ‘flow’
> > > > > of some form of ‘matter’ through space, as previously considered in
> > > > > the aether models or in the ‘random’ particulate Le Sage kinetic
> > > > > theory of gravity, rather the flow is an ongoing rearrangement of the
> > > > > quantum-foam patterns that form space, and indeed only have a
> > > > > geometrical description at a coarse-grained level. Then the ‘flow’ in
> > > > > one region is relative only to the patterns in nearby regions, and not
> > > > > relative to some a priori background geometrical space"
>
> > > > > What is described as "space effectively ‘flows’ towards matter" is the
> > > > > pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter towards the matter.
>
> > > > > "Then the ‘flow’ in one region is relative only to the patterns in
> > > > > nearby regions" is the pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter
> > > > > towards the matter and the pressure exerted by the displaced dark
> > > > > matter in nearby regions towards the matter.
>
> > > > > Evidence of dark matter displacement:
>
> > > > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'
> > > > > hhttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur...
>
> > > > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the
> > > > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes
> > > > > back out."
>
> > > > > "Astronomers using NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view
> > > > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two
> > > > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is
> > > > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the
> > > > > water."
>
> > > > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond.
>
> > > > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between
> > > > > two boats. The two boat collision creates a ripple in the water. The
> > > > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water.
>
> > > > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > It is possible to flow instantansously in each geometric point. Flow
> > > > may go nowhere itself but it flows energy through its space-time.
>
> > > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > > There is nothing that flows.  Instead we are simply a part to the
> > > whole and operate at speeds and delays which have nothing to do with
> > > c.  This c speed has been mixed up with "seeing" speed- but they are
> > > certainly not the same thing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Absolutely everything is flowing in some way. Such is time.
>
> > Mitch Raemsch
>
> Pressure. Not 'flow'. The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is based
> upon the dark matter pressure in which it exists.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No. Everything flows without exception.

Mitch Raemsch