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From: Henry Wilson DSc on 5 Jun 2010 17:57
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 00:20:46 -0700 (PDT), Benj <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> wrote:

>On May 28, 7:08�pm, ..@..(Henry Wilson DSc) wrote:
>
>> The density of cement is lower under water. Say 1.5 tonnes/m3
>>
>> The hardest part would be to hold the sharp point of the plug over the centre
>> of the hole while it is lowered. Also it appears that the top of the hole is
>> damaged and the oil would soon find a way around the plug.
>>
>> What size is the pipe? 4 inch? �6 inch? say 20 sq inch area
>>
>> So the plug has to be at least 60000 pounds.
>>
>> Thirty tons should do the job. ...say sixty tons out of the water
>
>Actually on the NBC news Brian Williams had a piece of pipe on his
>desk supposedly like the one down there. It was about 18" in diameter.
>Or about 250 sq. Inch area. Which means it needs to be 12.7 times
>heavier or 760 tons out of the water. So at about 2 tons per cubic
>yard we are talking about a mere 380 cubic yards of concrete
>(reinforced with steel, of course)
>
>Note that efficacy of this method is that the "valve" portion which is
>the needle confines the pressure to the 18" diameter pipe, rather than
>the "house" that BP tried to place over the whole thing.
>
>So now the original question was "how long" does this "needle valve"
>need to be. 18" pipe. (ignore taper for the moment and assume
>cylindrical cement 18" in diameter) So how long a "needle" is 380
>cubic yards of concrete? You can do it! Save the world! AND you can
>prove your are "smarter than BP" if not "smarter than Einstein"!

It doesn't have to be a long concrete needle. All it needs is a tapered metal
needle of maybe fifty feet that has thirty tons of concrete stuck on it. It
should be machined to the exact inside diameter of the pipe so it wont split
the thing. After the end is virtually sealed, the whole area can be buried in
concrete so it will never leak again.

But the problem is, BP isn't trying to plug the well at all. It wants to keep
it as a producing one.

This is criminal.

Henry Wilson...

........Einstein's Relativity...The religion that worships negative space.
From: Androcles on 5 Jun 2010 18:43

"Henry Wilson DSc" <..@..> wrote in message
news:nmhl0697kvetf1fmfvdqk9c4k0m21kdq8b(a)4ax.com...
| On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 00:20:46 -0700 (PDT), Benj <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> wrote:
|
| >On May 28, 7:08 pm, ..@..(Henry Wilson DSc) wrote:
| >
| >> The density of cement is lower under water. Say 1.5 tonnes/m3
| >>
| >> The hardest part would be to hold the sharp point of the plug over the
centre
| >> of the hole while it is lowered. Also it appears that the top of the
hole is
| >> damaged and the oil would soon find a way around the plug.
| >>
| >> What size is the pipe? 4 inch? 6 inch? say 20 sq inch area
| >>
| >> So the plug has to be at least 60000 pounds.
| >>
| >> Thirty tons should do the job. ...say sixty tons out of the water
| >
| >Actually on the NBC news Brian Williams had a piece of pipe on his
| >desk supposedly like the one down there. It was about 18" in diameter.
| >Or about 250 sq. Inch area. Which means it needs to be 12.7 times
| >heavier or 760 tons out of the water. So at about 2 tons per cubic
| >yard we are talking about a mere 380 cubic yards of concrete
| >(reinforced with steel, of course)
| >
| >Note that efficacy of this method is that the "valve" portion which is
| >the needle confines the pressure to the 18" diameter pipe, rather than
| >the "house" that BP tried to place over the whole thing.
| >
| >So now the original question was "how long" does this "needle valve"
| >need to be. 18" pipe. (ignore taper for the moment and assume
| >cylindrical cement 18" in diameter) So how long a "needle" is 380
| >cubic yards of concrete? You can do it! Save the world! AND you can
| >prove your are "smarter than BP" if not "smarter than Einstein"!
|
| It doesn't have to be a long concrete needle. All it needs is a tapered
metal
| needle of maybe fifty feet that has thirty tons of concrete stuck on it.
It
| should be machined to the exact inside diameter of the pipe so it wont
split
| the thing. After the end is virtually sealed, the whole area can be
buried in
| concrete so it will never leak again.
|
| But the problem is, BP isn't trying to plug the well at all. It wants to
keep
| it as a producing one.
|
| This is criminal.
|
If it were as simple as that the needle could be a hypodermic needle
with valves. Attach a pipe to the top with the side valve open (still
spilling) then open the top valve and close the side valve, the well
produces once again. Trying to close against pressure has to be
a mistake until you have got the equipment in place. Once you do
you can put anchors on the sea floor and tie the needle down, no
concrete needed, and the "needle" only needs to be 9 or 10 feet long.

From: Henry Wilson DSc on 6 Jun 2010 18:02
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 23:43:16 +0100, "Androcles" <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_z>
wrote:

>
>"Henry Wilson DSc" <..@..> wrote in message
>news:nmhl0697kvetf1fmfvdqk9c4k0m21kdq8b(a)4ax.com...
>| On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 00:20:46 -0700 (PDT), Benj <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> wrote:
>|
>| >On May 28, 7:08 pm, ..@..(Henry Wilson DSc) wrote:
>| >
>| >> The density of cement is lower under water. Say 1.5 tonnes/m3
>| >>
>| >> The hardest part would be to hold the sharp point of the plug over the
>centre
>| >> of the hole while it is lowered. Also it appears that the top of the
>hole is
>| >> damaged and the oil would soon find a way around the plug.
>| >>
>| >> What size is the pipe? 4 inch? 6 inch? say 20 sq inch area
>| >>
>| >> So the plug has to be at least 60000 pounds.
>| >>
>| >> Thirty tons should do the job. ...say sixty tons out of the water
>| >
>| >Actually on the NBC news Brian Williams had a piece of pipe on his
>| >desk supposedly like the one down there. It was about 18" in diameter.
>| >Or about 250 sq. Inch area. Which means it needs to be 12.7 times
>| >heavier or 760 tons out of the water. So at about 2 tons per cubic
>| >yard we are talking about a mere 380 cubic yards of concrete
>| >(reinforced with steel, of course)
>| >
>| >Note that efficacy of this method is that the "valve" portion which is
>| >the needle confines the pressure to the 18" diameter pipe, rather than
>| >the "house" that BP tried to place over the whole thing.
>| >
>| >So now the original question was "how long" does this "needle valve"
>| >need to be. 18" pipe. (ignore taper for the moment and assume
>| >cylindrical cement 18" in diameter) So how long a "needle" is 380
>| >cubic yards of concrete? You can do it! Save the world! AND you can
>| >prove your are "smarter than BP" if not "smarter than Einstein"!
>|
>| It doesn't have to be a long concrete needle. All it needs is a tapered
>metal
>| needle of maybe fifty feet that has thirty tons of concrete stuck on it.
>It
>| should be machined to the exact inside diameter of the pipe so it wont
>split
>| the thing. After the end is virtually sealed, the whole area can be
>buried in
>| concrete so it will never leak again.
>|
>| But the problem is, BP isn't trying to plug the well at all. It wants to
>keep
>| it as a producing one.
>|
>| This is criminal.
>|
>If it were as simple as that the needle could be a hypodermic needle
>with valves. Attach a pipe to the top with the side valve open (still
>spilling) then open the top valve and close the side valve, the well
>produces once again. Trying to close against pressure has to be
>a mistake until you have got the equipment in place. Once you do
>you can put anchors on the sea floor and tie the needle down, no
>concrete needed, and the "needle" only needs to be 9 or 10 feet long.


Dead right.
The tapered steel needle is made hollow and has perforations allowing oil to
flow through it. The tap on top is left open while it is put into place. The
initial weight need not be very large, just enough to get the point into the
hole. Then more concrete blocks can be lowered onto it to force it down and
hold it permanently.

.......But BP is run by pommie engineers....so the problem will never be solved.

Anyway, it is poetic justice that the US should end up being smothered under
the same substance that it has abused for so long.


Henry Wilson...

........Einstein's Relativity...The religion that worships negative space.
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