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From: Mike Bryant on 25 Nov 2006 13:23
I understand that the HP-50g supports HARDWARE grayscale. If this is
true, are there plans for a ROM update that would make use of this
directly to the user, ie... not just PIXON, but PIXON,value_0-F or some
such nomenclature ?

Just curious...
Thank you

From: manjo on 26 Nov 2006 00:21
> I understand that the HP-50g supports HARDWARE grayscale. If this is
> true, are there plans for a ROM update that would make use of this
> directly to the user, ie... not just PIXON, but PIXON,value_0-F or some
> such nomenclature ?

All new ARM based HP calculators support grayscale in HARDWARE,
however not in the software at this time.
To use hardware grayscale you should use programs developed with HPGCC or
OPENFIRE.

manjo


From: Mike Bryant on 26 Nov 2006 12:25

manjo wrote:
> > I understand that the HP-50g supports HARDWARE grayscale. If this is
> > true, are there plans for a ROM update that would make use of this
> > directly to the user, ie... not just PIXON, but PIXON,value_0-F or some
> > such nomenclature ?
>
> All new ARM based HP calculators support grayscale in HARDWARE,
> however not in the software at this time.
> To use hardware grayscale you should use programs developed with HPGCC or
> OPENFIRE.
>
> manjo

Thank you for the reply!
I know nothing of the HP-49 series. I went directly from an HP-48 GX
rev R to the 50g.

OPENFIRE (for me anyway) is way too complicated to use. Either the
documentation or the interface needs to vastly improve for a lamer like
me to understand. I would think that a ROM update could change the way
PIX works, so that instead of turning a pixel on or off, you simply
place a value (0 - 15) at that location.

cheers!
Mike Bryant

From: manjo on 26 Nov 2006 13:52
> OPENFIRE (for me anyway) is way too complicated to use. Either the
> documentation or the interface needs to vastly improve for a lamer like
> me to understand. I would think that a ROM update could change the way
> PIX works, so that instead of turning a pixel on or off, you simply
> place a value (0 - 15) at that location.

Hello Mike,

Well,
about PIX it's not that easy since RPL (OS) is black and white and PIX does
what it's supposed to do.
To support hardware grayscale in to the ROM ... it would be... a huge job
since most (if not all) GROBs built in ROM and pointers related to them
would change
(GROBS would be 2 or 4 times larger, and pointers would move)

It is likely that we will see the higher screen resolution
(or entirely new OS i would expect 264x160 for easiest old OS and software
porting)
much sooner than hardware grayscale supported by the ROM.

Maybe it could, support gray scale in the future the way 49G has.
But form what i gathered built in ROM functions for grayscale of 49G are not
that much used so
i'm not sure if it's worth the effort.

Of course if OPENFIRE is too complicated there is always HPGCC
(if you are familiar with C, not only grayscale but real ARM power is at
your disposal :-)

However (if you're more familiar with RPL and Saturn) i would like to
encurage you to consider the following :
OPENFIRE has '3 levels of use':
Basic level (normal users)
-run the games and software deveoped for openfire (excellent Lilian's
conversions/portings)
-use grayscale graphics viewer OFVIEW2 and OFVIEW4 to view your 2bit and
4bit grayscales

For experienced userRPL, sysRPL and SaturnCPU programmers,
(understanding of programming princpiles and GROB object is all that takes)
3 steps to develop grayscale software:
1. initialize (INITGS or INIT4)
2. use (GOR, GXOR, SUB,REPL, PIXON, POKE, PEEK... to manupulate the
graphics)
3. close when done (DONEGS)
(almost as if you'd write black/white software, when you played with it for
a while you will see how easy it is)

Finaly, a dedicated group of commands are ment for even more experienced
game developers for porting 48 series grayscale games to 49G+ and 50G.
Lilian was able to port some games even without the sources -he made
necessary modifications direcly binary (hello Lilian !!! -long time no see
:-)
Those actualy emulate graphics hardware and grayscale the way it was done in
the old days :-)

so... take a choice, and good luck :-)
I wouldn't rely on ROM changes regarding hardware grayscale.

manjo


From: Mike Bryant on 26 Nov 2006 21:19
> Finaly, a dedicated group of commands are ment for even more experienced
> game developers for porting 48 series grayscale games to 49G+ and 50G.
> Lilian was able to port some games even without the sources -he made
> necessary modifications direcly binary (hello Lilian !!! -long time no see
> :-)
> Those actualy emulate graphics hardware and grayscale the way it was done in
> the old days :-)
>
> so... take a choice, and good luck :-)
> I wouldn't rely on ROM changes regarding hardware grayscale.
>
> manjo

Thank you manjo so much for the response!

I see your point. If I had stopped long enough think just how
drastically it would affect a grob; either change a single grob or have
an associated object that would define that grob, I never would have
asked. It's kind of ironic that the sophistication of a multi-object OS
results in it's own limitations. lol

Thank you again,
Mike

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