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From: tony cooper on 14 Apr 2010 18:33 On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:55:35 GMT, Winniethepooh(a)100acrewoods.org (GMAN) wrote: >In article <fh9bs5hhf7v9p6pjqpel0cvn29q06u6tml(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:27:00 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>wrote: >> >>>In message <mpt9s5ltd91kjj62t7o1i5ptejvvb59unr(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper >>><tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >>>>On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:08:01 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>>Chris is offering opinions on an issue that he has no direct >>>>>>connection to as far as I know. >>>>> >>>>>You are making assumptions to suite your case and ignoring anything that >>>>>does not help. Much like the Catholic church when dealing with >>>>>Pedophile Clergy. >>>> >>>>When I say "as far as I know" I am clearly saying that I'm not making >>>>an assumption. >>>> >>>>I don't usually discuss what I read in newsgroups with my wife. >>>>However, the other night she came into the room and was reading one of >>>>your posts over my shoulder. >>>> >>>>When I explained that you were saying that we are bad parents because >>>>we sent our kids to Catholic schools, that we support pedophilia by >>>>belonging to a parish, and that she was wrong to continue to attend >>>>church, she made some comments. >>>> >>>>My wife seldom uses profanity. However, she did come up with some >>>>rather choice words. "Ignorant" was the only printable one. >>> >>>Denial.... >> >>"Denial" is refusing to recognize and admit that there is a problem. >>Both my wife and I recognize and admit that there is a very serious >>problem. She does not think the solution to the problem is to stop >>attending the church of her choice or that it in any way contributes >>to any solution. >Like either you or your wife had any choice in the matter since your parents >baptised you as a baby. That's true. Most Catholics, and most members of all major religions, are brought up in their religion from childhood on. They become adherents of the religion before they are mature enough to form their own opinions. Converts, to any religion, are often more hard-line than people brought up as part of the religion. My grandchildren will probably not be Catholic. (Which is fine with me and fine with my wife) because their parents did not have them baptised and do not attend church of any kind. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: Chris H on 15 Apr 2010 03:38 In message <a0fcs5t63k8883v6flj6t2pj0jefilkr3h(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:12:59 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >wrote: > >>In message <fh9bs5hhf7v9p6pjqpel0cvn29q06u6tml(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper >><tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >>>On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:27:00 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>In message <mpt9s5ltd91kjj62t7o1i5ptejvvb59unr(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper >>>><tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >>>>>On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:08:01 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>Chris is offering opinions on an issue that he has no direct >>>>>>>connection to as far as I know. >>>>>> >>>>>>You are making assumptions to suite your case and ignoring anything that >>>>>>does not help. Much like the Catholic church when dealing with >>>>>>Pedophile Clergy. >>>>> >>>>>When I say "as far as I know" I am clearly saying that I'm not making >>>>>an assumption. >>>>> >>>>>I don't usually discuss what I read in newsgroups with my wife. >>>>>However, the other night she came into the room and was reading one of >>>>>your posts over my shoulder. >>>>> >>>>>When I explained that you were saying that we are bad parents because >>>>>we sent our kids to Catholic schools, that we support pedophilia by >>>>>belonging to a parish, and that she was wrong to continue to attend >>>>>church, she made some comments. >>>>> >>>>>My wife seldom uses profanity. However, she did come up with some >>>>>rather choice words. "Ignorant" was the only printable one. >>>> >>>>Denial.... >>> >>>"Denial" is refusing to recognize and admit that there is a problem. >>>Both my wife and I recognize and admit that there is a very serious >>>problem. She does not think the solution to the problem is to stop >>>attending the church of her choice or that it in any way contributes >>>to any solution. >> >>Fair enough her church has only had one pedophile in the last 30 years >>(that you know of) and it protected him. So I suppose all is right with >>the world if you can turn a blind eye. > >As you say, we really don't know if only one was attached to the >parish. We only learned this long after he was gone. It came up >because he was exposed in another parish and his history was traced. This is happening a lot. As the trace back more is being uncovered and the fact that the bishops and cardinals did know and moved people rather than inform the police. >We - my wife and I - don't know if he committed any abuse while >stationed at our parish. The assumption is he did, but no one has >come forth and stated so. Thousands, yes it is many thousands ARE coming forward. The stats were that abuse was three times higher in the catholic clergy than the general population and that was before the recent round of revelations showing many dozens more priest in multiple and serial abuse cases. Taking into account those who were involved in the cover-up and protraction of these abusers it is about 25% of the clergy involved directly or indirectly. This is why several countries including Ireland are having public enquires and investigations. I think it is so bad in Germany that they are removing the statute of limitations on some crimes so the can prosecute those who committed the crimes in the past but wer protected by the church for decades. >According to the limited information released, he wasn't a pedophile. >He was a sexual abuser of teenaged boys. Pedophilia is abuse of >children who have not reached the age of puberty. Equivocation again. > Personally, I don't >make a distinction between the two classifications from a morality >standpoint. But you just have.... -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: tony cooper on 15 Apr 2010 07:06 On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:38:43 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >Taking into account those who were involved in the cover-up and >protraction of these abusers it is about 25% of the clergy involved >directly or indirectly. Can you provide some site or corroboration of your figure? The online information that I find put the figure of clergy involved in pedophilia or hemophilia at no higher than 6%. A study that found a figure of 25% should be easy to find since it is significantly higher than other studies. That would be major news. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: Chris H on 15 Apr 2010 08:04 In message <t6sds5p5rpak68guu8acqv7inp6sq3ond1(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:38:43 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >wrote: > >>Taking into account those who were involved in the cover-up and >>protraction of these abusers it is about 25% of the clergy involved >>directly or indirectly. > >Can you provide some site or corroboration of your figure? > >The online information that I find put the figure of clergy involved >in pedophilia or hemophilia at no higher than 6%. > >A study that found a figure of 25% should be easy to find since it is >significantly higher than other studies. That would be major news. We event round this loop before but as an apologist for the RC Church you spit hair and argue every minor point ignoring the major ones. Also you equivocate and prevaricate and twist everything. As you have done here. It is not worth doing it again. As I recall the "no higher" was in fact "at least" and was before most of the major recent revelations. The figure for the general population was I think 2% making the Catholic clergy at least three times the norm but you will (as you have started to do again, equivocate) I note you say pedophilia or hemophilia. It's child abuse but you are trying to sub divide to make the peadophilia number lesser. Any tactic to ignore that child abuse is endemic and protected in the catholic church. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: tony cooper on 15 Apr 2010 18:52
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:04:52 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >In message <t6sds5p5rpak68guu8acqv7inp6sq3ond1(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper ><tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >>On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:38:43 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>wrote: >> >>>Taking into account those who were involved in the cover-up and >>>protraction of these abusers it is about 25% of the clergy involved >>>directly or indirectly. >> >>Can you provide some site or corroboration of your figure? >> >>The online information that I find put the figure of clergy involved >>in pedophilia or hemophilia at no higher than 6%. >> >>A study that found a figure of 25% should be easy to find since it is >>significantly higher than other studies. That would be major news. > >We event round this loop before but as an apologist for the RC Church >you spit hair and argue every minor point ignoring the major ones. Also >you equivocate and prevaricate and twist everything. As you have done >here. It is not worth doing it again. In other words, you pulled the 25% figure out of thin air and you are now equivocating by nattering away about anything but providing a corroboration of your claim. >As I recall the "no higher" was in fact "at least" and was before most >of the major recent revelations. You "recall", hunh? You mean you recalled your earlier claim in which you made up the figures? >The figure for the general population was I think 2% making the Catholic >clergy at least three times the norm but you will (as you have started >to do again, equivocate) I note you say pedophilia or hemophilia. It's >child abuse but you are trying to sub divide to make the peadophilia >number lesser. Well, no. I consider pedophilia and hemophilia by priests to be equally reprehensible, so including both categories increases the total percentage and makes the case look worse for the church. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |