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From: glird on 13 Mar 2010 13:02
On Mar 13, 2:55 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> Descartes said "I Think Therefore I Am", and if you are like me then
> you too may have questioned this as a basis for "establishing
> existence by means of physical experiment".
> That is what Descartes did. He used a physical experiment, the process
> of thought itself, and he observes that he thinks, and his conclusion
> based on this observation is that he exists.
>
> I dont buy it.
> One reason I dont buy this as a valid means of establishing existence
> based on physical experimental evidence/observation is because we do
> not even really know what thought is. Thoughts are not really regarded
> as physical entities, they are typically regarded as being some type
> of metaphysical thing. There are many other reasos, but Descartes' is
> certainly far from being a rigorous proof of existence.
> As an alternative I would propose the following, which may have
> already been proposed by others - I dont really know - but here goes :
>
> Logic <=> Existence

Since logic IS thinking, and "sum" is a form of existence.
"Cogito ergo sum" is the same as "logic = existence".

glird


From: mpc755 on 13 Mar 2010 13:05
On Mar 13, 1:02 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 2:55 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Descartes said "I Think Therefore I Am", and if you are like me then
> > you too may have questioned this as a basis for "establishing
> > existence by means of physical experiment".
> >  That is what Descartes did. He used a physical experiment, the process
> > of thought itself, and he observes that he thinks, and his conclusion
> > based on this observation is that he exists.
>
> > I dont buy it.
> >  One reason I dont buy this as a valid means of establishing existence
> > based on physical experimental evidence/observation is because we do
> > not even really know what thought is. Thoughts are not really regarded
> > as physical entities, they are typically regarded as being some type
> > of metaphysical thing. There are many other reasos, but Descartes' is
> > certainly far from being a rigorous proof of existence.
> >  As an alternative I would propose the following, which may have
> > already been proposed by others - I dont really know - but here goes :
>
> >   Logic <=> Existence
>
>  Since logic IS thinking, and "sum" is a form of existence.
> "Cogito ergo sum" is the same as "logic = existence".
>
> glird

I am therefore I think.
From: mpc755 on 13 Mar 2010 13:08
On Mar 13, 1:05 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 1:02 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 13, 2:55 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Descartes said "I Think Therefore I Am", and if you are like me then
> > > you too may have questioned this as a basis for "establishing
> > > existence by means of physical experiment".
> > >  That is what Descartes did. He used a physical experiment, the process
> > > of thought itself, and he observes that he thinks, and his conclusion
> > > based on this observation is that he exists.
>
> > > I dont buy it.
> > >  One reason I dont buy this as a valid means of establishing existence
> > > based on physical experimental evidence/observation is because we do
> > > not even really know what thought is. Thoughts are not really regarded
> > > as physical entities, they are typically regarded as being some type
> > > of metaphysical thing. There are many other reasos, but Descartes' is
> > > certainly far from being a rigorous proof of existence.
> > >  As an alternative I would propose the following, which may have
> > > already been proposed by others - I dont really know - but here goes :
>
> > >   Logic <=> Existence
>
> >  Since logic IS thinking, and "sum" is a form of existence.
> > "Cogito ergo sum" is the same as "logic = existence".
>
> > glird
>
> I am therefore I think.

Nature abhors reference frames.
From: Huang on 13 Mar 2010 14:17
On Mar 13, 12:02 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 2:55 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Descartes said "I Think Therefore I Am", and if you are like me then
> > you too may have questioned this as a basis for "establishing
> > existence by means of physical experiment".
> >  That is what Descartes did. He used a physical experiment, the process
> > of thought itself, and he observes that he thinks, and his conclusion
> > based on this observation is that he exists.
>
> > I dont buy it.
> >  One reason I dont buy this as a valid means of establishing existence
> > based on physical experimental evidence/observation is because we do
> > not even really know what thought is. Thoughts are not really regarded
> > as physical entities, they are typically regarded as being some type
> > of metaphysical thing. There are many other reasos, but Descartes' is
> > certainly far from being a rigorous proof of existence.
> >  As an alternative I would propose the following, which may have
> > already been proposed by others - I dont really know - but here goes :
>
> >   Logic <=> Existence
>
>  Since logic IS thinking, and "sum" is a form of existence.
> "Cogito ergo sum" is the same as "logic = existence".
>
> glird- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Logic "is" thinking ? Is that the Copenhagen Interpretation of
mathematics or something ?

Are you implying that if there were no such thing as thought, that
there would be no such thing as logic ?

So there must be life in order for there for there to be any logic,
because without life there can be no thought.






From: Frederick Williams on 13 Mar 2010 14:26
glird wrote:

> Since logic IS thinking, and "sum" is a form of existence.
> "Cogito ergo sum" is the same as "logic = existence".

But logic _isn't_ thinking. It maybe that when people do logic they
need to think, but machines can "do" (at least some) logic also.


--
I can't go on, I'll go on.
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