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From: Woody on 20 May 2010 19:19
David <david(a)bogus.domain.dom.invalid> wrote:

> But Apple UK, at least, will let you choose your laptop with the US
> keyboard layout, won't they? (With an elegant workaround for � which
> completely obviates the need for the bastardised PC UK layout at all)

yes.

> (Sorry, call me stupid, but that _is_ what the "Keyboard and
> Documentation" option box in the Apple Store means, isn't it? It's just
> that the phrase "keyboard language options" rather than "keyboard
> layout" is a little puzzling. And does "Backlit Keyboard (British)"
> versus "Keyboard (US)" mean that the US keyboard option isn't backlit,
> or is that just inconsistent phraseology?)

I would imagine that is inconsistant text. The US keyboard is backlit as
well, and yes, you can select the language of your keyboard, US, UK, and
a few others (french and german?)

> you're starting to look at more
> like 600 or 700 quid, and then there's not quite such a level of price
> gougi\\\\\premium on a MacBook after all (honest, I'm trying to convince
> myself of this).

Do you mean Gucci? They do MacBook bags if you want one!

> * Nice, robust (isn't it?) design, let's say another 40

Fantastically robust. Worth a lot more that 40 to me. Seriously the
unibody is a fantastic design.

> (And suddenly you start saying to yourself: "You know, having psyched up
> to fork out that amount of money already, that MacBook Pro isn't really
> that much more expensive, and, you know, it is very Shiny [TM], and does
> have a better spec for the money, and will probably be more durable and
> wear better..")

That is what is here, but my wife has a MacBOok (or it was, it is now
the 13" macbook pro), and that is great too.

> * the MagSafe plug, gotta be at least a tenner's-worth of
> why-wasn't-that-obvious ingenuity..

> (But of course, against this we have to counter the compulsory
> conversion to the Church of Steventology.. :-( )

Its not compulsory, or even usual.

> Part of me says, no, no, you want the size 15, it's not really that much
> bigger or heavier, but you get a far more useful screen resolution. I
> fear that 1280x800 [1] will be very cramped, but then I try to remember
> that when I _do_ need the laptop for 'out and about' use, I probably
> really would curse the extra size and weight (and am unlikely to be
> multi-tasking as intensively), and I can always connect it to a higher
> res monitor when it's on the desk. And then I also look at the starting
> prices for the current size 15s.. Ouch. :-(

Well, if the money is an issue, look at the refurb store. This is a
refurb, so is the iMac upstairs. The 13" wasn't, but the previous 3 or 4
were.

As to actually the desision, well, that is the hard bit.

> So, I think my hardware choice is pretty much made for me; now,
> software:
>
> I presumably _could_ install a dual-boot Linux (eg, current
> favourite, Ubuntu) on the Mac (and I'd guess/hope it would be
> well-supported hardware-wise: one thing in Apple's favour, considerably
> fewer combinations of hardware unusualness to have be supported), but,
> to be honest, I suspect that may be going a little too far.. ;-)
>
> However, I would like to feel on my Mac that I were as close to my Linux
> home as possible. There are some obvious givens: Firefox [2],
> Thunderbird, OpenOffice (or is NeoOffice still the preferred choice
> these days?), etc.

Don't know, I have to have a copy of office for work stuff, although I
now use iWork for my own stuff, as I have recently re-fallen in love
with it!

> [2] sorry, gotta love those web developer add-ons..

It is very common around here.

> Much is made of MacOS X's Unix roots, but in reality, how much of what
> is now deemed to be 'standard' Linux software is actually available and
> has been ported?

That would depend what is standard linux software, you would have to
answer that one.

> I have a few 'must-haves' in addition to the above:
>
> GIMP

shudder - yes, that is available. As is salt and ground glass for your
eyes, to complete the suite :-)

> GnuCash

Probably

> vim (I'm sure I won't have to worry about that one ;-)

built in.

> nice to have:
>
> Inkscape
That one I have seen

> Scribus

Yep

> and, server-related,
>
> Apache
> MySQL
> PHP

They are all built in, although you can update versions as required.
Entropy.ch is good for that sort of info.

> Dovecot (IMAP server)
> getmail
> procmail

I have that stuff on my server version upstairs (it isn't a server, it
is just 'my server')

> slrn/leafnode (or similar - but maybe I can be convinced by a good
> Mac-native offline newsreader?)

Its available, the other answer leads to madness.

> How much of the 'standard' range of apps comes with MacOS X, and how
> much would I need to obtain from elsewhere? I gather that the main
> external sources of unixy apps for Macs are Fink or MacPorts: is one a
> better choice than the other (I get the impression that mixing and
> matching would not be a good idea)?

I generally get mine manually, but I was never a fan of package
managers.

> * Highlight to copy, middle-click to paste

works in terminal, not in the UI.

> (The one thing (above all else) the lack of which *always* makes me
> seethe on a Windows box..)
> Now, can Apple's super-whizzy trackpad manage that, somehow? :-)

You can do a middle click. I don't know how, i don't use it.

> * Being able to resize a window from anywhere on any window border
> (I really hope so, being restricted to just one corner is sooo 1980s..)

Nope.

> * Focus follows mouse
> (I can see this might be trickyish, with a screentop menu bar, but focus
> follows mouse with a 1 - 2 second delay so that you don't immediately
> lose focus when just skiting up to the menu, would surely do the trick?)

I have seen hacks for it, but no, not really

> If I really _have_ to click to focus a window, does click always bring
> to front, or is there a way to configure it?

Depends!

> I know that there is a fair proportion of Mac users who use their Macs
> more for traditionally unixy things than for traditionally Mac-like
> things. Any words of reassurance that I'd be making a sensible move
> would be welcome. I realise that I could just buy a generic laptop
> (crappy UK keyboard and all) for Linux, after having done a lot of
> research into ensuring hardware support, and while I can just about
> convince myself that I wouldn't be squandering my heard-earned _too_
> excessively on a Mac (that I probably don't _really_ need), it would be
> useful to know whether this would be at least a reasonably good value
> for money move. (And, yes, I know, it opens up the world of Mac software
> to me, some of which I might yet discover that I want/need, in a way
> which a Linux-only box wouldn't.)

I do a lot of development stuff. I have also done linux programming for
a living, and make most of my living off windows. I prefer doing command
line and development stuff on a mac. I find linuxes inconsistancies hard
to cope with.

Maybe your best option is see if you can try one for a bit

--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
From: Steve Firth on 20 May 2010 19:10
David <david(a)bogus.domain.dom.invalid> wrote:

> Much is made of MacOS X's Unix roots, but in reality, how much of what
> is now deemed to be 'standard' Linux software is actually available and
> has been ported?

Almost all of it.

> I have a few 'must-haves' in addition to the above:
>
> GIMP

port search gimp
gimp @2.6.7 (graphics)
The Gimp - Batteries Included

> GnuCash

port search gnucash
gnucash @2.2.9 (gnome, x11)
a personal and small-business financial-accounting software

> vim (I'm sure I won't have to worry about that one ;-)

which vim
/usr/bin/vim

> nice to have:
>
> Inkscape

port search inkscape
inkscape @0.47 (graphics, gnome)
Inkscape is an open source SVG editor.

> Scribus

port search scribus
scribus @1.3.3.11 (print)
X11-based WYSIWYG desktop publishing application

> and, server-related,
>
> Apache
> MySQL
> PHP
> Dovecot (IMAP server)
> getmail
> procmail

Yes, all of those too.

> slrn/leafnode (or similar - but maybe I can be convinced by a good
> Mac-native offline newsreader?)

Only a loon would use leafnode. But if you must...
From: Steve Firth on 20 May 2010 19:38
Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote:

> > vim (I'm sure I won't have to worry about that one ;-)
>
> built in.

Although nano, also built in, is better IMO. At the risk of igniting the
great editor wars all over again.
From: Woody on 20 May 2010 19:40
Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > vim (I'm sure I won't have to worry about that one ;-)
> >
> > built in.
>
> Although nano, also built in, is better IMO. At the risk of igniting the
> great editor wars all over again.

Oh no argument, but I would never deny a man the right to abuse himself
on the privacy of his own computer!

--
Woody
Alienrat Design Ltd
From: Steve Firth on 20 May 2010 20:05
Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote:

> Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > vim (I'm sure I won't have to worry about that one ;-)
> > >
> > > built in.
> >
> > Although nano, also built in, is better IMO. At the risk of igniting the
> > great editor wars all over again.
>
> Oh no argument, but I would never deny a man the right to abuse himself
> on the privacy of his own computer!

And in what a Linux geek would consider terminal heresy I actually tend
to use TextWrangler to edit files because it's better than any of the
Unixy offerings. Even on remote Linux machines I prefer to set up NFS so
that I can access the files to be edited from OSX. All I use nano for is
tweaking scripts and configuration files.

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