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From: Martin Riddle on 6 Jul 2010 18:45


"Hammy" <spam(a)spam.com> wrote in message
news:ckn636hnp47c39saq1vg3tbdbhch5qcvk8(a)4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:45:46 -0500, "Tim Williams"
> <tmoranwms(a)charter.net> wrote:
>
>>"Hammy" <spam(a)spam.com> wrote in message
>>news:1s96365pokujmv0pquuj6be8odohb539hu(a)4ax.com...
>>> They show a 43% drop in inductance at rated current. The core
>>> material
>>> is'nt stated but I'm guessing it is'nt ferrite.
>>
>>If they have a color photo, you can guess the material type.
>>http://www.micrometals.com/materials_index.html
>>Mix 26 and 52 are quite popular, and fairly lossy (e.g., a typical DCM
>>boost supply will have very little "dead time" ringing using these,
>>whereas a ferrite core, with much lower losses, will ring
>>significantly).
>>
>>Tim
>
> Well yes I guess I could , but should you really have too?
> They are trying to sell a product so they should be providing the
> information without someone having to jump through a bunch of hoops.
>
>
> You would figure they would have more detailed specs on their site but
> after browsing through the site and their catalogues they don't.
>
> If I wanted to build 5k a year what do you have to do email some clown
> in sales and ask for specifications that should already be included in
> the data sheet.
>
> I'm not just talking about the one inductor I posted about but the
> majority of inductor data sheets,if they can even be called that only
> state a dc current rating and maybe Q and srf.
>
> I'm just going to use the coilcraft part at least I know what I can
> expect.
>
> Its for a NCP1654 "CCM" boost converter.

Whats the lead time on that 1654? Mouser shows 4/18/2011

Coilcraft is good, easy samples. There are others
<http://www.interfacebus.com/inductors_transformers.html>

Check CWS www.coilws.com they might have something competitive .

I used the IRF1150, same CCM topology, the loop works well when setup
properly. But bypass Vcc well, and pick a mosfet with low input
capacitance.


Cheers



From: Hammy on 6 Jul 2010 19:13
On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 18:45:23 -0400, "Martin Riddle"
<martin_rid(a)verizon.net> wrote:

>

>
>Whats the lead time on that 1654? Mouser shows 4/18/2011

Onsemi shows call under lead time.
http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/availability.do?part=NCP1654BD65R2G

But between Digikey and Newark alone they have over 3k in stock.

Newark

http://canada.newark.com/on-semiconductor/ncp1654bd65r2g/power-factor-controller-ic/dp/01P0133

Digikey

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=NCP1654BD65R2GOSCT-ND


>Coilcraft is good, easy samples. There are others

Yes the inductors I have are from the NCP1653 300W PFC demoboard.I
think Onsemis phaseing out the 1653 for 1654.

I agree Coilcraft is excellent for samples as well as no hassle small
quantity orders.


><http://www.interfacebus.com/inductors_transformers.html>
>
>Check CWS www.coilws.com they might have something competitive .
>
>I used the IRF1150, same CCM topology, the loop works well when setup
>properly. But bypass Vcc well, and pick a mosfet with low input
>capacitance.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>
The 1654 has a pretty beffy drive output +/- 1.5A.
From: Martin Riddle on 6 Jul 2010 19:43


"Hammy" <spam(a)spam.com> wrote in message
news:j6d73652ccbf0in3i3u6o355o49rmi56uo(a)4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 18:45:23 -0400, "Martin Riddle"
> <martin_rid(a)verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>
>>
>>Whats the lead time on that 1654? Mouser shows 4/18/2011
>
> Onsemi shows call under lead time.
> http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/availability.do?part=NCP1654BD65R2G
>
> But between Digikey and Newark alone they have over 3k in stock.
>
> Newark
>
> http://canada.newark.com/on-semiconductor/ncp1654bd65r2g/power-factor-controller-ic/dp/01P0133
>
> Digikey
>
> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=NCP1654BD65R2GOSCT-ND
>
>
>>Coilcraft is good, easy samples. There are others
>
> Yes the inductors I have are from the NCP1653 300W PFC demoboard.I
> think Onsemis phaseing out the 1653 for 1654.
>
> I agree Coilcraft is excellent for samples as well as no hassle small
> quantity orders.
>
>
>><http://www.interfacebus.com/inductors_transformers.html>
>>
>>Check CWS www.coilws.com they might have something competitive .
>>
>>I used the IRF1150, same CCM topology, the loop works well when setup
>>properly. But bypass Vcc well, and pick a mosfet with low input
>>capacitance.
>>
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>
> The 1654 has a pretty beffy drive output +/- 1.5A.

So did the 1150, but we had to buffer it to drive the IGBT we used ;)

Onsemi give me tingles on lead time for smt parts, I might as well use
the thruhole parts. P&S is suppose to have small qty stock, never tried
them yet.

I have a few NCP1601's that I am going to experiment with in a SEPIC
design. I'm hoping to run close to 200khz with it. Trying to shrink the
previous design.

Cheers



From: Hammy on 6 Jul 2010 20:25
On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 19:43:23 -0400, "Martin Riddle"
<martin_rid(a)verizon.net> wrote:


>> The 1654 has a pretty beffy drive output +/- 1.5A.
>
>So did the 1150, but we had to buffer it to drive the IGBT we used ;)

Was the controller over heating or did you use the buffer to speed
transitions?

I cant even find a data sheet on the 1150 not even at IR or Vishay it
must be discontinued. I vaguely recall reading something a while ago
about single cycle control. I guess it didn't catch on ;-)

I'm building this mainly for experimentation the input range is only
90 - 135VAC. So the output is going to be 200VDC. So I can cheat and
use a fast switching low gate charge FET LIKE THE std17nf25 and
cheaper 250V output caps..

>Onsemi give me tingles on lead time for smt parts, I might as well use
>the thruhole parts. P&S is suppose to have small qty stock, never tried
>them yet.

Never heard of P&S either but going to the site is all in Chinese so I
probably don't want to know about them ;-)

I'm sure if you wanted more then the 3300 digikey and Newark stock On
semi would work something out.

>I have a few NCP1601's that I am going to experiment with in a SEPIC
>design. I'm hoping to run close to 200khz with it. Trying to shrink the
>previous design.

The bom for the 1654 is pretty minimal pg 22 of the data sheet shows a
300W converter. If you go to high in frequency any gains in downsizing
the BOOST inductor would probably be lost in having to increase the
common mode choke for EMC.

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NCP1654-D.PDF

The flavor of the month which according to availability from digikey
is the FAN6961SZ Which is a DCM controller.I haven't researched PFC
boost controllers for a while but I thought CCM was the best mode of
operation.

>Cheers
>
>
From: Martin Riddle on 6 Jul 2010 21:51


"Hammy" <spam(a)spam.com> wrote in message
news:esg736lvb8bm7163nh91ju54idsscp4aab(a)4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 19:43:23 -0400, "Martin Riddle"
> <martin_rid(a)verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> The 1654 has a pretty beffy drive output +/- 1.5A.
>>
>>So did the 1150, but we had to buffer it to drive the IGBT we used ;)
>
> Was the controller over heating or did you use the buffer to speed
> transitions?
>
> I cant even find a data sheet on the 1150 not even at IR or Vishay it
> must be discontinued. I vaguely recall reading something a while ago
> about single cycle control. I guess it didn't catch on ;-)
>
> I'm building this mainly for experimentation the input range is only
> 90 - 135VAC. So the output is going to be 200VDC. So I can cheat and
> use a fast switching low gate charge FET LIKE THE std17nf25 and
> cheaper 250V output caps..
>
>>Onsemi give me tingles on lead time for smt parts, I might as well use
>>the thruhole parts. P&S is suppose to have small qty stock, never
>>tried
>>them yet.
>
> Never heard of P&S either but going to the site is all in Chinese so I
> probably don't want to know about them ;-)
>
> I'm sure if you wanted more then the 3300 digikey and Newark stock On
> semi would work something out.
>
>>I have a few NCP1601's that I am going to experiment with in a SEPIC
>>design. I'm hoping to run close to 200khz with it. Trying to shrink
>>the
>>previous design.
>
> The bom for the 1654 is pretty minimal pg 22 of the data sheet shows a
> 300W converter. If you go to high in frequency any gains in downsizing
> the BOOST inductor would probably be lost in having to increase the
> common mode choke for EMC.
>
> http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NCP1654-D.PDF
>
> The flavor of the month which according to availability from digikey
> is the FAN6961SZ Which is a DCM controller.I haven't researched PFC
> boost controllers for a while but I thought CCM was the best mode of
> operation.
>
>>Cheers
>>
>>

Heres the 1150
<https://ec.irf.com/v6/en/US/adirect/ir?cmd=catSearchFrame&domSendTo=byID&domProductQueryName=IR1150>

Similar to the ncp part. It could do 200khz.

TI also has the UCC28019.
<http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=296-21936-1-ND>
Aside from the loop component values, and brown out, it's just about a
pin-for-pin replacement.

We have a larger >1Kw design that used the 1150 and a large IGBT, the
switching losses were a problem and needed a beefy driver.

Right now my design is at 100khz and filtering isn't an issue. Going
higher may make that choke a tad smaller or the same size if nothing is
availble as a replacement.

CCM is suppose to be a tad less in switching noise than DCM.

Good luck

Cheers





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