Installing a SATA hard drive on IDE motherboard
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From: Paul on 26 Jan 2010 10:20 Metspitzer wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:59:06 -0800 (PST), "larry moe 'n curly" > <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > >> >> SCT Technology wrote: >>> I have a Dell Dimension B110 with Windows XP Home installed. I would >>> like to connect a 1TB SATA hard drive using a SATA to IDE converter as >>> the secondary, internal drive for storage. (Primary drive is IDE and >>> there is no SATA support on the Dimension motherboard...therefore I'm >>> wanting to use the converter.) Does anyone know if this configuration >>> will function as I would like? >> I have a converter based on a SunPlus chip (the other major chip for >> converters is from JMicron), and I would not recommend it, except to >> use IDE hard drives with SATA controllers. I could not get any IDE >> optical drives to work with it, and SATA drives from Seagate, WD, and >> Samsung would eventually cause the HDAT2 diagnostic to eventually >> freeze when scanning sectors, in 20 minutes to 5 hours, with no >> consistency. I did not test other HDs. No other diagnostic I tried >> did that, but the failure with HDAT2 was enough to make me avoid using >> SATA drives with it. >> >> Before you buy a SATA-IDE converter, read all the reviews at NewEgg >> and Amazon, especially the highly detailed ones that are negative. >> >> I would rather buy a PCI or PCI-e SATA controller that supports SATA/ >> 300 (also called SATA II). Cards that support only SATA/150 (SATA I) >> may not recognize SATA/300 drives, and some SATA drives don't have a >> jumper to select between SATA/300 and SATA/150 but instead require >> that a software utility be run to change the maximum speed. That >> requires having a SATA controller that properly recognizes SATA/300 >> drives. > > I have wondered if you format a drive using the jumper to slow it > down, could you use the drive in another machine without the jumper? > SATA cable --------------------------------- Drive 150MB/sec or 300MB/sec 7200RPM, all the time. The "force150" jumper has nothing to do with what is actually stored on the drive. You can insert or remove the jumper and all it does, is change the cable rate between the drive and the motherboard. Normally, SATA drives negotiate the cable rate. It is in cases where the negotiation fails, that the "force150" jumper provides its main benefit (allowing the negotiation to arrive at "150" as the setting to use). Some VIA chipset motherboards require the user to insert the "force150" jumper, to get the drives to be detected and be visible. I've tested my system here, both with the "force150" jumper installed and with it removed, and I can't tell the difference in terms of performance. In Linux, I might note a message indicating what cable rate is being used, but otherwise, I'd be oblivious as to what rate it was running at. The cable rate is more important, if you're using a SATA SSD with 200MB/sec+ transfer rates. But for the crappy rotating hard drives, other performance issues swamp out what the cable is doing to you. So it's not a big deal as far as I can see. I don't sit around all day with a stop-watch checking these things. I don't notice any "extra snappiness" when the "force150" jumper is removed. Windows doesn't boot any faster. Firefox doesn't open any faster. In the above example diagram, the disk spins at a constant 7200RPM, whether the cable is 150MB/sec or 300MB/sec. The spindle doesn't change speeds. The flying height requires reasonably controlled conditions to work properly, so making big changes in the RPM would be a mistake and could lead to a head crash. Some of the latest drives have some means to dynamically monitor flying height, so a drive like that may have options as to what it can safely do. Older technology has no reason to be changing the RPM at all and won't load the heads to the platter, until the RPM rate is correct and constant. Paul
From: Metspitzer on 26 Jan 2010 12:55 On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:20:17 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote: >Metspitzer wrote: >> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:59:06 -0800 (PST), "larry moe 'n curly" >> <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> SCT Technology wrote: >>>> I have a Dell Dimension B110 with Windows XP Home installed. I would >>>> like to connect a 1TB SATA hard drive using a SATA to IDE converter as >>>> the secondary, internal drive for storage. (Primary drive is IDE and >>>> there is no SATA support on the Dimension motherboard...therefore I'm >>>> wanting to use the converter.) Does anyone know if this configuration >>>> will function as I would like? >>> I have a converter based on a SunPlus chip (the other major chip for >>> converters is from JMicron), and I would not recommend it, except to >>> use IDE hard drives with SATA controllers. I could not get any IDE >>> optical drives to work with it, and SATA drives from Seagate, WD, and >>> Samsung would eventually cause the HDAT2 diagnostic to eventually >>> freeze when scanning sectors, in 20 minutes to 5 hours, with no >>> consistency. I did not test other HDs. No other diagnostic I tried >>> did that, but the failure with HDAT2 was enough to make me avoid using >>> SATA drives with it. >>> >>> Before you buy a SATA-IDE converter, read all the reviews at NewEgg >>> and Amazon, especially the highly detailed ones that are negative. >>> >>> I would rather buy a PCI or PCI-e SATA controller that supports SATA/ >>> 300 (also called SATA II). Cards that support only SATA/150 (SATA I) >>> may not recognize SATA/300 drives, and some SATA drives don't have a >>> jumper to select between SATA/300 and SATA/150 but instead require >>> that a software utility be run to change the maximum speed. That >>> requires having a SATA controller that properly recognizes SATA/300 >>> drives. >> >> I have wondered if you format a drive using the jumper to slow it >> down, could you use the drive in another machine without the jumper? >> > > SATA cable --------------------------------- Drive > 150MB/sec or 300MB/sec 7200RPM, all the time. > > >The "force150" jumper has nothing to do with what is actually >stored on the drive. You can insert or remove the jumper and >all it does, is change the cable rate between the drive and >the motherboard. Normally, SATA drives negotiate the cable rate. It >is in cases where the negotiation fails, that the "force150" jumper >provides its main benefit (allowing the negotiation to arrive at >"150" as the setting to use). Some VIA chipset motherboards require >the user to insert the "force150" jumper, to get the drives to >be detected and be visible. > >I've tested my system here, both with the "force150" jumper installed >and with it removed, and I can't tell the difference in terms of >performance. In Linux, I might note a message indicating what cable >rate is being used, but otherwise, I'd be oblivious as to what >rate it was running at. > >The cable rate is more important, if you're using a SATA SSD with >200MB/sec+ transfer rates. But for the crappy rotating hard drives, >other performance issues swamp out what the cable is doing to you. >So it's not a big deal as far as I can see. I don't sit around >all day with a stop-watch checking these things. I don't notice >any "extra snappiness" when the "force150" jumper is removed. >Windows doesn't boot any faster. Firefox doesn't open any faster. > >In the above example diagram, the disk spins at a constant 7200RPM, >whether the cable is 150MB/sec or 300MB/sec. The spindle doesn't >change speeds. The flying height requires reasonably controlled >conditions to work properly, so making big changes in the RPM >would be a mistake and could lead to a head crash. Some of the >latest drives have some means to dynamically monitor flying height, >so a drive like that may have options as to what it can safely >do. Older technology has no reason to be changing the RPM at all >and won't load the heads to the platter, until the RPM rate is >correct and constant. > > Paul Thanks
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