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From: glird on 2 Aug 2010 13:17
On Aug 2, 10:19 am, dlzc <dl...(a)cox.net> wrote:
> Dear harald:
>
> On Aug 1, 11:37 pm, harald <h...(a)swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 1, 7:12 pm, glird wrote:
>
> > >   Since a force is a net pressure, and the textbooks say that weight is a force, a gram is a unit of weight and force.  Another unit
of force is a dyne. The textbook definition of a dyne is “a ‘dyne’ is
that force which will produce an acceleration of 1 cm per second per
second when acting on a mass of 1
gram". ("Mass" denotes a quantity of matter. As such, it too is a
dimension.)
Though the quantity of atomic matter in different bodies is
proportionate to their respective weight, unstructured matter [now
called "dark matter"] has no weight. A gram, however, is a quantity of
weight, which is a force.  Therefore a gram and an ounce are the wrong
units of measure for a quantity of
matter!
>
>> In addition to dlzc: for "weight" some old books used kgf, thus the force that 1 kg of mass exerts on earth.
1 kgf = 9.8 N - not to be confused with 1 kg!
>
> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/unit-converter-d_185.html#Pressure
(there is a popup if you click the link, sorry)
... check out these units of pressure:
kg/m^2, gram-force/sq cm, kg-force/sq cm, equating 1 psi to 16
ounces, and so on. >

I did, and here's what appeared:
# Standard Atmospheric Pressure 1 atm = 101.325 kILOGRAM/m2 = 1.01325
bar = 101.325 kPa = 14.7 pOUNDsia = 0 psig = 29.92 in Hg = 760 torr =
33.95 Ft.H2O = 407.2
In.W.G (Water Gauge) = 2116.8 POUNDS/Sq.Ft.
# 1 N/m2 = 1 Pa = 1.4504x10-4 lb[!!]/in2 = 1x10-5 bar = 4.03x10-3 in
water = 0.336x10-3 ft water = 0.1024 mm water = 0.295x10-3 in mercury
= 7.55x10-3 mm mercury = 0.1024 kg[!!!]/m2 = 0.993x10-5 atm
# 1 Pa = 10-6 N/mm2 = 10-5 bar = 0.1020 kp/m2 = 1.02x10-4 m H2O =
9.869x10-6 atm = 1.45x10-4 psi [= POUNDS!!! PER SQUARE INCH] (lbf/in2)
# 1 N/mm2 = 106 Pa = 10 bar = 1.020x105 kp/m2 = 102.0 m H2O = 9.869
atm = 145.0 psi [!!!!] (lbf/in2)
# 1 mmHg = 1 torr = 0.01934 lb!/in2
# 1 atm = 101,325 Pa (N/m2) = 1.013x102 k!!!N/m2 = 1.033x104 kp/m2 =
1.033 kp/cm2 = 1.013 bar = 14.696 psi ([POUNDS!!!]/in2) = 407.1 in H2O
at 62 0F (16.7 oC) = 33.9 ft H2O at 62 0F (16.7 oC) = 10.33 m H2O at
62 0F (16.7 oC) = 29.92 in mercury at 62 0F (16.7 oC) = 760 mm mercury
at 62 0F (16.7 oC) = 760 torr
ETC, ETC, IN WHICH every one of these units of PRESSURE contains a
gram or a pound!!

# 1 bar = 1x105 Pa (N/m2) = 0.1 N/mm2 = 10,197 kp/m2 = 10.20 m H2O =
0.98692 atm = 14.5038 psi (lbf/in2) = 1x106 dyne/sq cm = 750 mmHg =
1x106 barye (French) = 75.0062 cm Hg (0oC) = 33.4883 ft H2O (60oF) =
1019.72 gram-force/sq cm = 29.530 in Hg (32oF) = 1.01972 kg-force/sq
cm = 1000 millibar = 2088.54 pound-force/sq foot
# 1 kp/m2 = 9.81 Pa (N/m2) = 9.807x10-6 N/mm2 = 10-3 m H2O = 1 mm H2O
= 0.9681x10-4 atm = 1.422x10-3 psi (lb/in2) = 0.0394 in H2O = 0.0736
mm mercury
# 1 psi (lb/in2) = 144 psf (lbf/ft2) = 6,894.8 Pa (N/m2) = 6.895x10-3
N/mm2 = 6.895x10-2 bar = 27.71 in H2O at 62oF (16.7oC) = 703.1 mm H2O
at 62oF (16.7oC) = 2.0416 in mercury at 62oF (16.7oC) = 51.8 mm
mercury at 62oF (16.7oC) = 703.6 kg/m2 = 0.06895 atm = 2.307 Ft. H2O =
16 ounces
# 1 psf (lbf/ft2) = 47.88 N/m2 (Pa) = 0.006944 lbf/in2 (psi)
# 1 dyn/cm2 = 145.04x10-7 lbf/in2
# 1 in mercury (Hg) = 3,376.8 N/m2= 0.49 lb/in2 = 12.8 in water
# 1 Ounce = 1.73 In.W.C.
# 1 Ft.H2O = 0.4335 psi = 62.43 Lbs./Sq.Ft.
# 1 in water = 248.8 N/m2= 0.0361 lb/in2 = 25.4 kg/m2 = 0.0739 in
mercury
# 1 m H2O = 9806.7 Pa = 9.807x10-3 N/mm2 = 0.0987 bar = 1,000 kp/m2 =
0.09678 atm = 1.422 psi (lbf/in2)
# 1 mm water = 9.81 Pa (N/m2) = 1 kg/m2 = 0.0736 mm mercury =
0.9677x10-4 atm
# 1 mm mercury = 0.0193 lb/in2 = 133 N/m2 = 12.8 mm wate  

>Looks like "glird" is not the only >one drinking...
> David A. Smith

My point is this: BECAUSE a gram (or kilogram or ounce or pound) is
THE WRONG UNIT for a quantity of matter, physicists are conphused into
thinking that e = mc^2 means that MATTER is converted into the ability
to do work.
When they understand that the m in that equation represents grams of
WEIGHT, perhaps they might begin to understand the underlying
metaphysics of their own equations.
Until that happens, physics will remain all phucked up.

glird
From: Dono. on 2 Aug 2010 14:38
On Aug 2, 10:17 am, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> physicists are conphused into
> thinking that e = mc^2 means that MATTER is converted into the ability
> to do work.

Physicists are not confused, only idiots like Lebau are.


> When they understand that the m in that equation represents grams of
> WEIGHT, perhaps they might begin to understand the underlying
> metaphysics of their own equations.
> Until that happens, physics will remain all phucked up.
>
That is, it means that you'll remain an idiot? Yes.

From: harald on 3 Aug 2010 04:31
On Aug 2, 7:17 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 10:19 am, dlzc <dl...(a)cox.net> wrote:> Dear harald:
>
> > On Aug 1, 11:37 pm, harald <h...(a)swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 1, 7:12 pm, glird wrote:
>
> > > >   Since a force is a net pressure, and the textbooks say that weight is a force, a gram is a unit of weight and force.  Another unit
>
> of force is a dyne. The textbook definition of a dyne is “a ‘dyne’ is
> that force which will produce an acceleration of 1 cm per second per
> second when acting on a mass of 1
> gram". ("Mass" denotes a quantity of matter. As such, it too is a
> dimension.)
>  Though the quantity of atomic matter in different bodies is
> proportionate to their respective weight, unstructured matter [now
> called "dark matter"] has no weight. A gram, however, is a quantity of
> weight, which is a force.  Therefore a gram and an ounce are the wrong
> units of measure for a quantity of
> matter!
>
> >> In addition to dlzc: for "weight" some old books used kgf, thus the force that 1 kg of mass exerts on earth.
>
>  1 kgf = 9.8 N - not to be confused with 1 kg!

[..]
>   ETC, ETC, IN WHICH every one of these units of PRESSURE contains a
> gram or a pound!!

[..]

>   My point is this:  BECAUSE a gram (or kilogram or ounce or pound) is
> THE WRONG UNIT for a quantity of matter, physicists are conphused into
> thinking that e = mc^2 means that MATTER is converted into the
> ability to do work.

There is also mH2O (METER); those are practical measures and if you
use them you are supposed to understand what they mean and they are
NOT the accepted units for communication between physicists.

Physicists know that E = mc^2 means that, as Einstein put it:

"The mass of a body is a measure of its energy-content; if the energy
changes [..] the mass changes in the same sense".

However, it has been demonstrated that in this way *matter* can be
fully transformed into *radiation*.

>   When they understand that the m in that equation represents grams
> of WEIGHT,

No it doesn't! Again: don't confuse weight with mass.

Here is once more the difference:

F = m * g

F = weight [N]
m = mass [kg]
g = gravitation constant

For example, a mass of 1 kg weighs much less on the moon than on
earth.

> perhaps they might begin to understand the underlying
> metaphysics of their own equations.

Didn't you check the definition of metaphysics that Sam gave you the
link to??

>   Until that happens, physics will remain all phucked up.

It's not a problem of physics, although a few physicists are sloppy
with this topic (e.g. some wrongly say that *mass* is "converted" into
*energy*).

Harald
From: Darwin123 on 3 Aug 2010 09:59
On Aug 1, 1:12 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>   Since a force is a net pressure, and the textbooks say that weight
> is a force, a gram is a unit of weight and force.  
Three false statements in the opening sentence. Wait, there maybe
four mistakes here, right in the initial assumptions. Your conclusion
won't be certain.

Textbooks say that pressure has units of force divided by area.
Therefore, a net force can not be pressure.
A gram is a unit of mass, not weight or force.
Force has units of mass times distance divided by time squared.
The unit, dyne, is equivalent to gram-centimeters per second
squared.
Your textbooks are right about weight being a type of force. So
dyne, a unit of force, is also a unit of weight.
From: dlzc on 3 Aug 2010 16:29
On Aug 2, 10:17 am, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
....
>   My point is this:  BECAUSE a gram (or kilogram
> or ounce or pound) is THE WRONG UNIT for a
> quantity of matter, physicists are conphused into
> thinking that e = mc^2 means that MATTER is
> converted into the ability to do work.
>   When they understand that the m in that equation
> represents grams of WEIGHT, perhaps they might
> begin to understand the underlying metaphysics of
> their own equations.
>   Until that happens, physics will remain all
> phucked up.

Lest anyone think this particular babbling brook is transporting some
sort of gold dust, pressure has units of mass / ((time^2) * length),
and weight has units of mass * length / (time^2).

This person is proposing reconfiguring all the equations of physics to
redefine the three basic quantities of mass, length, and time into
either pressure or force, length, and time.

If you are interested in knowing more about this subject, I recommend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckingham_%CF%80_theorem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_analysis
.... for a subject that is nearly 100 years old (and did not involve
Einstein).

David A. Smith
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