Java plugins in 64bit Debian
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From: Stephen Powell on 11 Jan 2010 16:00 On 2010-01-11 at 15:32:54 -0500, Alex Samad wrote: > for some reason we (the user of debian) are being pushed to use icedtea > and its java plugin, I don't have a problem with this except for the > fact that the plugin isn't a drop in replacement for the sun plugin, but > its turning into a grin and bear it. Sun Java is not "free" in the sense of "freedom". In other words, it does not meet the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG). That is also why Sun Java is relegated to the "non-free" portion of the Debian archive. Unless and until Sun decides to release their software under a license that meets the standards of the DFSG, it will never be the default java code on a Debian system. That is pretty much guaranteed by the Debian Social Contract. If you want Sun Java, you'll have to install it yourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org
From: Alex Samad on 11 Jan 2010 16:10 On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 03:56:13PM -0500, Stephen Powell wrote: > On 2010-01-11 at 15:32:54 -0500, Alex Samad wrote: > > for some reason we (the user of debian) are being pushed to use icedtea > > and its java plugin, I don't have a problem with this except for the > > fact that the plugin isn't a drop in replacement for the sun plugin, but > > its turning into a grin and bear it. > > Sun Java is not "free" in the sense of "freedom". In other words, it does > not meet the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG). That is also why > Sun Java is relegated to the "non-free" portion of the Debian archive. > Unless and until Sun decides to release their software under a license > that meets the standards of the DFSG, it will never be the default java > code on a Debian system. That is pretty much guaranteed by the Debian > Social Contract. I am not arguing that, and I agree with what you have said about them making it free. The issue is the icedtea plugin is touted as a replacement for the sun plugin, and it clearly doesn't work properly > > If you want Sun Java, you'll have to install it yourself. > >
From: Stephen Powell on 11 Jan 2010 16:30 On 2010-01-11 at 16:04:26 -0500, Alex Samad wrote: > I am not arguing that, and I agree with what you have said about them > making it free. > > The issue is the icedtea plugin is touted as a replacement for the sun > plugin, and it clearly doesn't work properly I hear you. Of course, there is a Sun plugin too, and you have to install that yourself as well, which may mean de-installing other software to avoid conflicts. At the risk of "hijacking" a thread, I had a similar problem with Flash player plugins. The "free" and default flash player for Etch was constantly crashing my browser. With Lenny it was much more reliable, and it would play a higher percentage of flash plugins correctly, but it still didn't play some of them correctly. At present, there are two pieces of non-free software that I typically install. One is Sun Java. The other is Adobe Flash Player. Philosophically, I much prefer free software. But I'm enough of a pragmatist that I install those two pieces of software because the "it works" feature is the most important thing to me. Writers of free software are often at a distinct disadvantage. The format of the data files is often proprietary and undocumented. They literally have to guess at the format. Sometimes they guess right and sometimes they don't. If web page creators would use free and open formats for their web content, it would help. But when they use proprietary tools to create the web pages in the first place, it should come as no surprise that the generated web pages use proprietary data file formats. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org
From: Alex Samad on 11 Jan 2010 16:50
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 04:26:35PM -0500, Stephen Powell wrote: > On 2010-01-11 at 16:04:26 -0500, Alex Samad wrote: > > I am not arguing that, and I agree with what you have said about them > > making it free. > > > > The issue is the icedtea plugin is touted as a replacement for the sun > > plugin, and it clearly doesn't work properly > > I hear you. Of course, there is a Sun plugin too, and you have to install > that yourself as well, which may mean de-installing other software to > avoid conflicts. > > At the risk of "hijacking" a thread, I had a similar > problem with Flash player plugins. The "free" and default flash player > for Etch was constantly crashing my browser. With Lenny it was much > more reliable, and it would play a higher percentage of flash plugins > correctly, but it still didn't play some of them correctly. At present, > there are two pieces of non-free software that I typically install. > One is Sun Java. The other is Adobe Flash Player. Philosophically, > I much prefer free software. But I'm enough of a pragmatist that I > install those two pieces of software because the "it works" feature > is the most important thing to me. > > Writers of free software are often at a distinct disadvantage. > The format of the data files is often proprietary and undocumented. > They literally have to guess at the format. Sometimes they guess right > and sometimes they don't. If web page creators would use free and open > formats for their web content, it would help. But when they use > proprietary tools to create the web pages in the first place, it > should come as no surprise that the generated web pages use proprietary > data file formats. I think we are coming from the same place > > -- Alden's Laws: (1) Giving away baby clothes and furniture is the major cause of pregnancy. (2) Always be backlit. (3) Sit down whenever possible. |