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From: Glenn Gundlach on 29 May 2010 00:10
There is a guy on DIY audio stating that jitter in SPDIF digital audio
causes distortions. OK. He also claims to have jitter in the 100 fs
area. Is he blowing smoke about the jitter or can he really achieve
sub pico second jitter? It seems to me that jitter in that system is
similar to Time Base errors in video systems. In analog video 1-2 nS
was achieved in both analog and digital Time Base Correction (TBC)
systems but I'm having problems getting my head around 100 fS and - is
it REALLY audible?

Thanks to all for any insight.

G²
From: John Larkin on 29 May 2010 00:35
On Fri, 28 May 2010 21:10:32 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Gundlach
<stratus46(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>There is a guy on DIY audio stating that jitter in SPDIF digital audio
>causes distortions. OK. He also claims to have jitter in the 100 fs
>area. Is he blowing smoke about the jitter or can he really achieve
>sub pico second jitter? It seems to me that jitter in that system is
>similar to Time Base errors in video systems. In analog video 1-2 nS
>was achieved in both analog and digital Time Base Correction (TBC)
>systems but I'm having problems getting my head around 100 fS and - is
>it REALLY audible?
>
>Thanks to all for any insight.
>
>G�

100 fs RMS cycle-cycle jitter is possible from a very good, pretty
expensive crystal oscillator. Of course it's not audible.

Any signal processing, including quantization, causes distortion. So
do microphones, speakers, and ears. People who worry about
femtoseconds are lunatics.

Sound doesn't travel very far in 100 fs. The performer's guitar, the
recording microphone, the speaker, the walls of your listening room,
your eardrums... all are moving around constantly much, much more than
the distance sound travels in 100 fs. One *microinch* of vibration of
any of them corresponds to 30 ns of jitter.

Audio is mostly nonsense.

John




From: Sylvia Else on 29 May 2010 01:23
On 29/05/2010 2:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 28 May 2010 21:10:32 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Gundlach
> <stratus46(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a guy on DIY audio stating that jitter in SPDIF digital audio
>> causes distortions. OK. He also claims to have jitter in the 100 fs
>> area. Is he blowing smoke about the jitter or can he really achieve
>> sub pico second jitter? It seems to me that jitter in that system is
>> similar to Time Base errors in video systems. In analog video 1-2 nS
>> was achieved in both analog and digital Time Base Correction (TBC)
>> systems but I'm having problems getting my head around 100 fS and - is
>> it REALLY audible?
>>
>> Thanks to all for any insight.
>>
>> G�
>
> 100 fs RMS cycle-cycle jitter is possible from a very good, pretty
> expensive crystal oscillator. Of course it's not audible.
>
> Any signal processing, including quantization, causes distortion. So
> do microphones, speakers, and ears. People who worry about
> femtoseconds are lunatics.
>
> Sound doesn't travel very far in 100 fs. The performer's guitar, the
> recording microphone, the speaker, the walls of your listening room,
> your eardrums... all are moving around constantly much, much more than
> the distance sound travels in 100 fs. One *microinch* of vibration of
> any of them corresponds to 30 ns of jitter.
>
> Audio is mostly nonsense.

He probably needs some gold wires leading to his crystal holder. I have
some in stock - only $100 per inch - extra fine for hi-fidelity performance.

Sylvia.

From: David Eather on 29 May 2010 01:29
On 29/05/2010 3:23 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 29/05/2010 2:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 May 2010 21:10:32 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Gundlach
>> <stratus46(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a guy on DIY audio stating that jitter in SPDIF digital audio
>>> causes distortions. OK. He also claims to have jitter in the 100 fs
>>> area. Is he blowing smoke about the jitter or can he really achieve
>>> sub pico second jitter? It seems to me that jitter in that system is
>>> similar to Time Base errors in video systems. In analog video 1-2 nS
>>> was achieved in both analog and digital Time Base Correction (TBC)
>>> systems but I'm having problems getting my head around 100 fS and - is
>>> it REALLY audible?
>>>
>>> Thanks to all for any insight.
>>>
>>> G�
>>
>> 100 fs RMS cycle-cycle jitter is possible from a very good, pretty
>> expensive crystal oscillator. Of course it's not audible.
>>
>> Any signal processing, including quantization, causes distortion. So
>> do microphones, speakers, and ears. People who worry about
>> femtoseconds are lunatics.
>>
>> Sound doesn't travel very far in 100 fs. The performer's guitar, the
>> recording microphone, the speaker, the walls of your listening room,
>> your eardrums... all are moving around constantly much, much more than
>> the distance sound travels in 100 fs. One *microinch* of vibration of
>> any of them corresponds to 30 ns of jitter.
>>
>> Audio is mostly nonsense.
>
> He probably needs some gold wires leading to his crystal holder. I have
> some in stock - only $100 per inch - extra fine for hi-fidelity
> performance.
>
> Sylvia.
>
Extra Fine? Seems like that would be a very nice high profit item - more
power to your cash register!
From: Sylvia Else on 29 May 2010 01:32
On 29/05/2010 3:29 PM, David Eather wrote:
> On 29/05/2010 3:23 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 29/05/2010 2:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 May 2010 21:10:32 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Gundlach
>>> <stratus46(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is a guy on DIY audio stating that jitter in SPDIF digital audio
>>>> causes distortions. OK. He also claims to have jitter in the 100 fs
>>>> area. Is he blowing smoke about the jitter or can he really achieve
>>>> sub pico second jitter? It seems to me that jitter in that system is
>>>> similar to Time Base errors in video systems. In analog video 1-2 nS
>>>> was achieved in both analog and digital Time Base Correction (TBC)
>>>> systems but I'm having problems getting my head around 100 fS and - is
>>>> it REALLY audible?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all for any insight.
>>>>
>>>> G�
>>>
>>> 100 fs RMS cycle-cycle jitter is possible from a very good, pretty
>>> expensive crystal oscillator. Of course it's not audible.
>>>
>>> Any signal processing, including quantization, causes distortion. So
>>> do microphones, speakers, and ears. People who worry about
>>> femtoseconds are lunatics.
>>>
>>> Sound doesn't travel very far in 100 fs. The performer's guitar, the
>>> recording microphone, the speaker, the walls of your listening room,
>>> your eardrums... all are moving around constantly much, much more than
>>> the distance sound travels in 100 fs. One *microinch* of vibration of
>>> any of them corresponds to 30 ns of jitter.
>>>
>>> Audio is mostly nonsense.
>>
>> He probably needs some gold wires leading to his crystal holder. I have
>> some in stock - only $100 per inch - extra fine for hi-fidelity
>> performance.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>>
> Extra Fine? Seems like that would be a very nice high profit item - more
> power to your cash register!

Of course. Though sadly I have the same problem that others have
mentioned in this group; relieving fools of their cash is all very well,
but I need to be able to look myself in the mirror :(

Sylvia.
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