Light isn't a particle
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From: BruceS on 20 May 2010 19:25 On May 20, 5:00 pm, Don Stockbauer <donstockba...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > On May 20, 5:10 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 20, 2:20 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On May 20, 4:10 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 20, 2:05 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> writes: > > > > > >On May 20, 1:24 pm, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On May 20, 2:35 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > >> > Light is only a wave. It has no momentum like matter. > > > > > > >> > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > >> You're Poyntingly wrong. EM waves have momentum density. > > > > > >I don't think so. They are dual electric and magnetic waves. As such > > > > > >which wave will the particle be in? the electric wave or the magnetic > > > > > >wave? > > > > > > The momentum of a photon is directly proportional to its frequency, > > > > > p = hf/c. That a photon does carry momentum is easily observable. > > > > > Please demonstrate how easy the measurement is. > > > >http://www.jstor.org/pss/79586 > > > Note this is done 33 years ago. > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > You mean 33 years ago they made something up and now you are carrying > > on with it. > > If not then answer the question which wave the particle is in? > > Is it in the electric wave or is it in the magnetic? > > Mitch, you have such beautiful blue eyes. Hey, that's what the orderlies say to distract him while they help him into his jacket.
From: Michael Moroney on 20 May 2010 21:05 BURT <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> writes: >On May 20, 3:06 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) >wrote: >> BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> writes: >> >On May 20, 2:05 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) >> >wrote: >> >> BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> writes: >> >> >On May 20, 1:24 pm, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: >> >> >> On May 20, 2:35 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Light is only a wave. It has no momentum like matter. >> >> >> >> > Mitch Raemsch >> >> >> >> You're Poyntingly wrong. EM waves have momentum density. >> >> >I don't think so. They are dual electric and magnetic waves. As such >> >> >which wave will the particle be in? the electric wave or the magnetic >> >> >wave? >> >> >> The momentum of a photon is directly proportional to its frequency, >> >> p = hf/c. That a photon does carry momentum is easily observable. >> >Please demonstrate how easy the measurement is. >> >> Observe matter with relatively low momentum atoms. Bombard it with >> photons energetic enough to knock an electron loose. >The only posszibility here is for absorption of light that would cause >a quantum jump; sorry but nothing knocks an electron I'm talking about a photon powerful enough to knock the electron free of the atom. (google "photoelectric effect" for details) >Everyone is deluded Everyone except yourself. Right. >> Calculate the >> momentum of the electron and resulting ion. Subtract the initial momentum >> (~0). By conservation of momentum, the difference had to come from >> somewhere... the photon. Compare this value with that predicted by >> p = hf/c. >> >> Bubble chamber photos would be good, gamma + H --> e- + p+. >We don't know what we are looking at. You mean _you_ don't know what you are looking at. Look at this one for details: http://teachers.web.cern.ch/teachers/archiv/HST2001/bubblechambers/glug.pdf Raw picture on page 3, highlighted on page 4, details on following pages. All the "B" curls are electrons knocked free by gamma rays. Note that they moved and thus had momentum. Where did they get it from? Momentum from the gamma. Also P and Q are interesting. P is a positron that annihilates with an electron forming gammas. Where did its momentum go? One of the gammas materialized into an electron/positron pair at Q. Both were moving and thus had momentum. Where did it come from? The gamma. Same for the "C" e+e- pairs formed from gammas. Also read the "Positron.electron annihilation to one photon is impossible" section starting on the 7th page, as it discusses the momentum of photons.
From: mpc755 on 20 May 2010 21:24 On May 20, 2:35 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > In the 1930's Einstein questioned what he won the Nobel prize for. He > said he could not reconcile the wave of light with a particle. in the > end. > > Light is only a wave. It has no momentum like matter. > > Mitch Raemsch The 'particle' occupies a very small region of the wave. That is why placing detectors at the exits to the slits causes the photon to be detected exiting a single slit. The 'particle' can occupy a very small region of the wave itself. The wave associated with a photon exits both slits. The wave creates interference upon exiting the slits which alters the direction the photon 'particle' travels. Detecting the 'particle' causes decoherence of the associated wave and there is no interference.
From: Inertial on 20 May 2010 22:27 "PD" <thedraperfamily(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:7f77fa96-7d27-465e-b3e7-9a56add66d2c(a)b21g2000vbh.googlegroups.com... > On May 20, 3:53 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> On May 20, 1:24 pm, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: >> >> > On May 20, 2:35 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > > In the 1930's Einstein questioned what he won the Nobel prize for. He >> > > said he could not reconcile the wave of light with a particle. in the >> > > end. >> >> > > Light is only a wave. It has no momentum like matter. >> >> > > Mitch Raemsch >> >> > You're Poyntingly wrong. EM waves have momentum density. > > And it's measurable. > >> >> I don't think so. > > Then you don't know about the measurements. > >> They are dual electric and magnetic waves. As such >> which wave will the particle be in? the electric wave or the magnetic >> wave? > > The problem is, you see, that you're trying to make a picture in your > head FIRST about how light can have momentum, in order to decide > whether it does. That's backwards. First you look up the experimental > measurement that confirms that it just DOES have momentum, accept that > it DOES, and THEN you try to figure out a mental picture that explains > how it can have the momentum it obviously does have. Well said.
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E. on 20 May 2010 22:33
Don Stockbauer wrote: > > On May 20, 5:10 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > On May 20, 2:20 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 4:10 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > On May 20, 2:05 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> writes: > > > > > >On May 20, 1:24 pm, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On May 20, 2:35 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > Light is only a wave. It has no momentum like matter. > > > > > > > >> > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > >> You're Poyntingly wrong. EM waves have momentum density. > > > > > >I don't think so. They are dual electric and magnetic waves. As such > > > > > >which wave will the particle be in? the electric wave or the magnetic > > > > > >wave? > > > > > > > The momentum of a photon is directly proportional to its frequency, > > > > > p = hf/c. That a photon does carry momentum is easily observable. > > > > > > Please demonstrate how easy the measurement is. > > > > >http://www.jstor.org/pss/79586 > > > Note this is done 33 years ago. > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > You mean 33 years ago they made something up and now you are carrying > > on with it. > > If not then answer the question which wave the particle is in? > > Is it in the electric wave or is it in the magnetic? > > Mitch, you have such beautiful blue eyes. He's a quart low. (Old joke) -- Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul(a)Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ How do I set a laser printer to stun? |