Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri
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From: glee on 13 Jun 2010 00:15 "Dan" <Dan(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:0B71DB5B-7551-4C73-A739-9121A973CB89(a)microsoft.com... > snip > > Thank you for your input Glen. I noticed this was added on to my > Mozilla > Firefox in Windows Vista and I do not even use their toolbar but do > use a few > of the Windows Live Services with Windows Vista so I guess it got > tagged as a > download. I manually updated it and did see it as an important > update. > Anyway, I have currently disabled it but was surprised that the > unistall > button is grayed out unlike the Java Console that will let you > unistall it > and not just easily disable it. It should certainly have been offered > as an > optional update and also allow for easy unistall for the user. This > is a > good example of why people should not use automatic updates and regard > all > updates that are less than critical with a grain of salt before > automatically > downloading and installing. I plan to research this some more. > Finally, > companies should not add anything else to products other than their > own > software in my opinion and this goes not just for Microsoft but also > to > Oracle/Sun Java and every other software company, imo. > > http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/06/microsoft-explains-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars Thanks for the link, Dan.....at least it gives a little more info on what the update is for. Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any company to any software but their own, it can't work out that way. If Sun Java is installed, components have to be added to the installed web browsers, because Java will be implemented in those browsers. In this case, a toolbar is installed in the browser, and updates to that toolbar may add components to the browser. The two most prevalent browser toolbars, Google Toolbar and Yahoo Toolbar, add items not only to the browsers but also to Windows startup axis, run regular updaters, and if enabled send info back to Google or Yahoo....and no one finds this intrusive? It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, but ignore similar or worse behavior from Sun, Google or Yahoo. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 A+ http://dts-l.net/
From: 98 Guy on 13 Jun 2010 10:13 glee wrote: > Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any > company to any software but their own, it can't work out that > way. Yes, it can work that way. Microsoft wanted to do what-ever it could to insure that Firefox users might at least stumble upon Bing as a search option as they used their browser, thereby increasing there market share of the search market and increase their advertizing revenue. Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate updates were designed to accomplish the same end. > It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that > supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, How can you say that, when Microsoft is now admitting that they made a mistake as to how the update applied itself? Of course we should be up-in-arms about these instances, because if we are not, Microsoft will become accustomed to doing them more often. --------------- Microsoft explains mystery Firefox extension, "fixes" update: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/06/microsoft-explains-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars "In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars that it shouldn't be added to." --------------- It's too late for those systems that have already performed the last WU session. This particular "update" does not show up in Control Panel => Programs and Features => Installed Updates. Furthermore, the Uninstall button for the extension is greyed out in Firefox. Ya sure, you say that it could have been a simple configuration mistake for it to apply itself to Firefox when firefox has NO previously-installed msn or bing tool bar (who cares if the user's IE has such a tool bar - that doesn't mean the update should also install itself on Firefox if the user did not install an MS-based tool bar or add-on for Firefox). But when the update intentionally removes the mechanism to allow the user to delete or uninstall it, and when MS classifies the update as "important", then all together this points to intent to plant a Bing search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on. Their motive was purely financial. Microsoft's mindset surrounding this update came purely from their sales and marketing divisions. It was no mistake the way this was rolled out by Macro$haft.
From: Anteaus on 13 Jun 2010 16:13 99% of users have no need for Java, and it does pose a measurable security problem. That said, Java has a legitimate purpose, it's just that its days of being used by websites are largely over. If you use OpenOffice you may need Java, but even so you can disable the browser plugin in the settings, or by editing the FF config file greprefs\all.js if you want to stop people re-enabling it. As opposed to toolbars which are an attempt to foist stuff onto the user, and almost always for reasons which are not in the user's interest. "98 Guy" wrote: > glee wrote: > > > Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any > > company to any software but their own, it can't work out that > > way. > > Yes, it can work that way. Microsoft wanted to do what-ever it could to > insure that Firefox users might at least stumble upon Bing as a search > option as they used their browser, thereby increasing there market share > of the search market and increase their advertizing revenue. > > Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate updates > were designed to accomplish the same end. > > > It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that > > supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, > > How can you say that, when Microsoft is now admitting that they made a > mistake as to how the update applied itself? > > Of course we should be up-in-arms about these instances, because if we > are not, Microsoft will become accustomed to doing them more often. > > --------------- > Microsoft explains mystery Firefox extension, "fixes" update: > > http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/06/microsoft-explains-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars > > "In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars > that it shouldn't be added to." > --------------- > > It's too late for those systems that have already performed the last WU > session. This particular "update" does not show up in Control Panel => > Programs and Features => Installed Updates. Furthermore, the Uninstall > button for the extension is greyed out in Firefox. > > Ya sure, you say that it could have been a simple configuration mistake > for it to apply itself to Firefox when firefox has NO > previously-installed msn or bing tool bar (who cares if the user's IE > has such a tool bar - that doesn't mean the update should also install > itself on Firefox if the user did not install an MS-based tool bar or > add-on for Firefox). > > But when the update intentionally removes the mechanism to allow the > user to delete or uninstall it, and when MS classifies the update as > "important", then all together this points to intent to plant a Bing > search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for > casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on. Their motive was purely > financial. Microsoft's mindset surrounding this update came purely from > their sales and marketing divisions. It was no mistake the way this was > rolled out by Macro$haft. > . >
From: 98 Guy on 13 Jun 2010 21:14 Anteaus top-poasted and full-quoted: > 99% of users have no need for Java, and it does pose a measurable > security problem. I've got some IP web-cams that use java when accessed with non-ie web browser. For web-based device command and control you're going to need java. Your only other option is activex and IE.
From: glee on 14 Jun 2010 00:02
"98 Guy" <98(a)Guy.com> wrote in message news:4C14E777.B07BDA77(a)Guy.com... > glee wrote: > >> Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any >> company to any software but their own, it can't work out that >> way. > > Yes, it can work that way. Microsoft wanted to do what-ever it could > to > insure that Firefox users might at least stumble upon Bing as a search > option as they used their browser, thereby increasing there market > share > of the search market and increase their advertizing revenue. > > Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate > updates > were designed to accomplish the same end. > >> It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that >> supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, > > How can you say that, when Microsoft is now admitting that they made a > mistake as to how the update applied itself? > > Of course we should be up-in-arms about these instances, because if we > are not, Microsoft will become accustomed to doing them more often. > > --------------- > Microsoft explains mystery Firefox extension, "fixes" update: > > http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/06/microsoft-explains-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars > > "In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars > that it shouldn't be added to." > --------------- > > It's too late for those systems that have already performed the last > WU > session. This particular "update" does not show up in Control Panel > => > Programs and Features => Installed Updates. Furthermore, the Uninstall > button for the extension is greyed out in Firefox. > > Ya sure, you say that it could have been a simple configuration > mistake > for it to apply itself to Firefox when firefox has NO > previously-installed msn or bing tool bar (who cares if the user's IE > has such a tool bar - that doesn't mean the update should also install > itself on Firefox if the user did not install an MS-based tool bar or > add-on for Firefox). > > But when the update intentionally removes the mechanism to allow the > user to delete or uninstall it, and when MS classifies the update as > "important", then all together this points to intent to plant a Bing > search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for > casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on. Their motive was > purely > financial. Microsoft's mindset surrounding this update came purely > from > their sales and marketing divisions. It was no mistake the way this > was > rolled out by Macro$haft. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. As usual, you excerpt one line from the article: "In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars that it shouldn't be added to." but you leave out the other lines that describe what toolbars they refer to. "...we discovered a bug in the latest update that was installing the Firefox extension for users with the Windows Live Toolbar and MSN Toolbar (specifically people who have not upgraded to the latest version of the Bing Bar). We fixed the update so that going forward folks who still have only the older Windows Live Toolbar or MSN Toolbar will not see this behavior anymore. The extension in Firefox will be update[d] for users who have the Bing Bar or the latest version of MSN Toolbar (version 4.0), since both are available for both IE and FF." The add-on is STILL going to added to Firefox for users who have the Bing Bar or the latest version of MSN Toolbar installed on the *system*, whether or not it is installed in Firefox. The update is NOT digging into the individual user profiles of Firefox to see if the toolbar is installed or enabled...it only updates the Microsoft folder for the toolbar in the Programs Files folder. This is less intrusive and prevents snooping into the Firefox profile folder tree. I already stated this in my earlier reply.....you are only excerpting the portions that suit your argument, and selectively ignoring anything that does not support your aim, which in NOT to look at the whole picture, but to feed your desire to bash Microsoft regardless of the facts. Microsoft also supplied info on how to remove the update, so no, it's not "too late" for those who already installed the update. Your claim that it was Microsoft's "intent to plant a Bing search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on" is fairly ridiculous. If the Bing toolbar is not installed in Firefox, the add-on wouldn't do anything....it just sits there in the add-on list. You stated: > Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate > updates > were designed to accomplish the same end. Well now, Sun doesn't make their own toolbar or search engine, do they? So they can't make an update that does the same thing. Big whoopee. What they do, and have done for years, is every time they make a Java update available (which are almost always security updates to fix vulnerabilities in their software), is add to their Java update an installer for a toolbar (at one time it was the Google toolbar or Yahoo bar, recently it's been the Bing bar) with the option to install it ALREADY CHECKMARKED, appearing in the middle of the installation routine, where most users do not even notice it, so it is installed without their realizing it. Why? Because Sun get paid to add that installer to their update, thereby increasing Sun's revenue by sneaking an installation of superfluous software into a security update. They have in the past done the same with an OpenOffice installer instead of a toolbar. IMO this is worse than what you are whining about....adding unrelated software installations already checkmarked to install, to a security update. I am wasting my time here, as long as your ultimate goal is to bash a company rather than examine facts objectively. I am not defending the update and especially not the way it was put out, but I am looking at the scope of what it does and why. You have already decided Microsoft is evil and everything they do is nefarious....yet you ignore similar activity by Sun, and other companies. The Google and Yahoo toolbar installer and updaters, as well as others, do worse, but you'll overlook that because it doesn't further your goal of attacking MS. Your lame tactics get old quick.... -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 A+ http://dts-l.net/ |