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From: Mark South on 25 Oct 2007 13:23
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:14:26 +0000, Paul Martin wrote:

> In article <ffqe2m$hhc$1(a)dux.dundee.ac.uk>,
> Chris wrote:
>> Paul Martin wrote:
>
>>> I also don't say that you can do without both functions, only that the
>>> functions can be provided in one program or split between many
>>> programs.
>
>> I've no idea what you mean by 'functions'.
>
> Functions of "desktop manager" and "window manager". It's only fairly
> recently (with Gnome and KDE) that the two roles have been separated.
>
> Historically, what we called "window managers" filled both roles.

Well, really there is a spectrum rather than a binary division. Rox can
act as a desktop manager for several window managers, for example (I
happen to like rox with fvwm-crystal and slim as login manager) while KDE
and Gnome are full-blown desktop environments, with all kinds of system
integration going on (networking, printing, etc etc).

The only general rule is that the more it can do, the longer it takes to
do it and the longer it takes to download and install....
From: Nix on 25 Oct 2007 19:43
On 25 Oct 2007, Chris spake thusly:
> Not really. Gnome and KDE are Desktop Environments (or managers) which
> are built upon specific window managers. You can use others with Gnome
> or KDE, but don't expect it to work very well.

Um, wrong. Any window manager supporting the EWMH specification will
work perfectly well with GNOME or KDE (in KDE the entire set of negative
effects is that one panel in the control center becomes useless: it's
the one for configuring kwin, which, duh, you're not running.)

I'm using fvwm 2.5.21 with KDE 3.5.7 here and it works flawlessly.

--
`Some people don't think performance issues are "real bugs", and I think
such people shouldn't be allowed to program.' --- Linus Torvalds
From: Chris on 26 Oct 2007 04:03
Nix wrote:
> On 25 Oct 2007, Chris spake thusly:
>> Not really. Gnome and KDE are Desktop Environments (or managers) which
>> are built upon specific window managers. You can use others with Gnome
>> or KDE, but don't expect it to work very well.
>
> Um, wrong. Any window manager supporting the EWMH specification will
> work perfectly well with GNOME or KDE (in KDE the entire set of negative
> effects is that one panel in the control center becomes useless: it's
> the one for configuring kwin, which, duh, you're not running.)

Ah, OK. That's good to know.

> I'm using fvwm 2.5.21 with KDE 3.5.7 here and it works flawlessly.

Out of interest, what are the advantages of using fvwm over kwin?
From: Sébastien Weber on 26 Oct 2007 06:50
Le Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:46:16 +0100, Robert Flint a écrit :

> "Broderick Crawford" <bcrawford2150(a)roadrunner.com> wrote in message
> news:47209843$0$9613$4c368faf(a)roadrunner.com...
>> Robert Flint wrote:
>>> I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3.
>>> All
>>> the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top
>>> that
>>> has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons).
>>> This has
>>> happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective of whether they
>>> login using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.
>>>
>>> Any advice would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> ROB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> That's what I get when I enable xgl. I had to go back to xorg to get my
>> bars back.
>
> Thanks, yes it was compiz causing the problem. Uninstalled it and the
> title bars are back.
>
> ROB

You can install fusion-icon (with Yast). It's an icon in the taskbar that
allows you to change and reload the windows manager, to configure
Emerald's themes and Compiz settings, etc. It's an easy way to test
Compiz.

SW
From: Harold Stevens on 26 Oct 2007 08:02
In <ffs6sq$arc$1(a)dux.dundee.ac.uk> Chris:

[Snip...]

> Out of interest, what are the advantages of using fvwm over kwin?

I use twm myself (SuSE 10.0), and AFAIK it seems not to need all the silly
eye-candy bloat immediately available. It sees a *much* smaller WM is used
and just swaps out all the hogware. If it doesn't need it, why chew up any
RAM with it?

That's not to say bloat like KDE/Gnome/etc. doesn't have a place. But it's
very nice for folks like me running limited resources to have options.

Like anything else: Linux beats the Evil Empire to hell and back in having
choice about your property/time, discounting anything else involved.

--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.
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