My daugther's hard disk become unallocated !
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From: Jan Alter on 25 Mar 2010 07:30 "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message news:4bab134e$0$24168$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... > > "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de discussion > : hodcdj$jm8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> Sydney wrote: >>> No it is not All HDs are with cable select. Thanks anyhow >> >> I assume this is a desktop computer ? >> >> First step, is to enter the BIOS and verify that the BIOS sees >> two disk drives. There may be an IDE setup screen, which reports >> the detected hard drives and optical drive. If the ASCII text >> name of the drive is distorted, then you'd know there was a >> communications problem on the cable. The BIOS screen shows the >> results of the minimum effort to talk to the drive. >> >> If you're not seeing the disk in the BIOS, there is no point >> in working to find it in Windows. >> >> You'd review your cable setup and jumpers, to see if you missed >> something. Do both drives have power cables plugged in ? Is >> the power connector seated ? Are there any burned pins on the >> power connector ? Verify that if there are two drives on the >> cable, they're Master:Slave or CS:CS (and that the cable is >> 80 wire if CS:CS is chosen). >> >> If the drives are both detected in the BIOS, then you can use some >> OS to work on them. I use a Linux LiveCD, such as Ubuntu or Knoppix, to >> work on Windows disks. Linux can now read NTFS and FAT32, so it is no >> problem to work there. >> >> If they're visible in the BIOS, your next stop could be >> Disk Management in Windows. If you don't know how to find it, >> basically just run diskmgmt.msc . If you see two Disk entries >> but no partitions on the second disk, then it could be that >> the MBR (Master Boot Sector, that holds the four primary partition >> entries) is corrupted. >> >> The "TestDisk" program is an example of a free utility that can >> examine a disk and try to reconstruct the MBR. In the process of >> doing that, the program will be doing lots of reads on the disk, >> so it would give you some idea whether the disk is dying or not, >> just based on whether any errors are thrown or not. >> >> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk >> >> TestDisk isn't likely to be the solution to your problem. I find >> about 50% of the time, if I were to accept what it found, it would >> mess up the disk. It requires knowledge from the user, as to what it >> finds is reasonable or not. For example, if you know the disk had >> three partitions (C:, D:, hidden recovery) and it didn't find three >> entries, you'd know better than to accept its findings. >> >> In any case, at least work up to the step of using diskmgmt.msc >> to prove the disk is detected. If the disk is not there, you have >> to work on getting the hardware to access it, before any more progress >> can be made. >> >> If a disk has an internal failure, they're designed to not respond >> in the event of failure. I disagree with the design philosophy, but there >> it is. For example, some disks "disappear", when a defect table used >> in firmware overflows. So in some cases, the disk dying, is not >> mechanical or logical, and is a firmware bug. At least some firmware >> inspired bugs can easily be fixed by data recovery companies. >> >> In other cases, your own senses can give you an idea what happened to >> the drive. I had an old 2GB drive, and one day when I turned on the >> computer, I heard a loud "sproing" sound. That was the head assembly >> getting snagged in the landing ramp and being torn to shreds. When >> you hear a noise like that, you don't need a copy of TestDisk :-( >> >> Paul >> >>> >>> "Petrus Tax" <petrustax(a)earthlink.net> a �crit dans le message de >>> groupe de discussion : iJadnWiF6pg7hzfWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>> Hello: >>>> This may be a more or less mechanical issue: jumper settings? cables >>>> tight? correct cables? >>>> HTH and good luck! >>>> Petrus >>>> >>>> "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message >>>> news:4ba9c95e$0$20659$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... >>>>> The PC has 2 hard disks. the boot one was created in november with a >>>>> fresh windows home XP . It replaced the old Hitachi disk which was >>>>> very slow. >>>>> The Hitachi was installed as a slave primary to access the data. >>>>> Last week, my daugther asked me to retrieve her personal contacts >>>>> which were on the Hitachi. So I had to connect it as primary master >>>>> and booted on it. That worked fine. >>>>> When returning to the actual boot, the Hitachi disappeared and Windows >>>>> sees it as unallocated. >>>>> I suppect my USB memory key as the culprit. >>>>> Are the data lost ? >>>>> What to do know ? >>>>> Please help. >>>> > Paul, Thanks for this thorough answer and comments. This is a lot of care. > The Bios sees two disks. Cables setup and jumpers are correct; > Windows disk manager sees a 137 Go not allocated disk (it is 160 Go ) and > starts the init and conversion assistant for the disk.I refused that; > Windows explorer nor disk defrag do not see the disk; > Ubuntu 9.04 (Linux ) sees a 8.2 Go disk with 814 bad sectors. It > realocated 809 sectors. > No change in windows behavior after that. > Should I run TestDisk under Ubuntu since windows does see the disk ? > > your advice is highly appreciated It might be worth running a Hitachi diagnostics tool to check if the drive is in order. Since you didn't mention which drive you have of theirs you would need to confirm by checking before downloading the proper tool. http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT -- Jan Alter bearpuf(a)verizon.net >
From: Sydney on 25 Mar 2010 09:46 "Jan Alter" <bearpuf(a)verizon.net> a �crit dans le message de groupe de discussion : hofhhb$s3a$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message > news:4bab134e$0$24168$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... >> >> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de >> discussion : hodcdj$jm8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> Sydney wrote: >>>> No it is not All HDs are with cable select. Thanks anyhow >>> >>> I assume this is a desktop computer ? >>> >>> First step, is to enter the BIOS and verify that the BIOS sees >>> two disk drives. There may be an IDE setup screen, which reports >>> the detected hard drives and optical drive. If the ASCII text >>> name of the drive is distorted, then you'd know there was a >>> communications problem on the cable. The BIOS screen shows the >>> results of the minimum effort to talk to the drive. >>> >>> If you're not seeing the disk in the BIOS, there is no point >>> in working to find it in Windows. >>> >>> You'd review your cable setup and jumpers, to see if you missed >>> something. Do both drives have power cables plugged in ? Is >>> the power connector seated ? Are there any burned pins on the >>> power connector ? Verify that if there are two drives on the >>> cable, they're Master:Slave or CS:CS (and that the cable is >>> 80 wire if CS:CS is chosen). >>> >>> If the drives are both detected in the BIOS, then you can use some >>> OS to work on them. I use a Linux LiveCD, such as Ubuntu or Knoppix, to >>> work on Windows disks. Linux can now read NTFS and FAT32, so it is no >>> problem to work there. >>> >>> If they're visible in the BIOS, your next stop could be >>> Disk Management in Windows. If you don't know how to find it, >>> basically just run diskmgmt.msc . If you see two Disk entries >>> but no partitions on the second disk, then it could be that >>> the MBR (Master Boot Sector, that holds the four primary partition >>> entries) is corrupted. >>> >>> The "TestDisk" program is an example of a free utility that can >>> examine a disk and try to reconstruct the MBR. In the process of >>> doing that, the program will be doing lots of reads on the disk, >>> so it would give you some idea whether the disk is dying or not, >>> just based on whether any errors are thrown or not. >>> >>> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk >>> >>> TestDisk isn't likely to be the solution to your problem. I find >>> about 50% of the time, if I were to accept what it found, it would >>> mess up the disk. It requires knowledge from the user, as to what it >>> finds is reasonable or not. For example, if you know the disk had >>> three partitions (C:, D:, hidden recovery) and it didn't find three >>> entries, you'd know better than to accept its findings. >>> >>> In any case, at least work up to the step of using diskmgmt.msc >>> to prove the disk is detected. If the disk is not there, you have >>> to work on getting the hardware to access it, before any more progress >>> can be made. >>> >>> If a disk has an internal failure, they're designed to not respond >>> in the event of failure. I disagree with the design philosophy, but >>> there >>> it is. For example, some disks "disappear", when a defect table used >>> in firmware overflows. So in some cases, the disk dying, is not >>> mechanical or logical, and is a firmware bug. At least some firmware >>> inspired bugs can easily be fixed by data recovery companies. >>> >>> In other cases, your own senses can give you an idea what happened to >>> the drive. I had an old 2GB drive, and one day when I turned on the >>> computer, I heard a loud "sproing" sound. That was the head assembly >>> getting snagged in the landing ramp and being torn to shreds. When >>> you hear a noise like that, you don't need a copy of TestDisk :-( >>> >>> Paul >>> >>>> >>>> "Petrus Tax" <petrustax(a)earthlink.net> a �crit dans le message de >>>> groupe de discussion : >>>> iJadnWiF6pg7hzfWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>>> Hello: >>>>> This may be a more or less mechanical issue: jumper settings? cables >>>>> tight? correct cables? >>>>> HTH and good luck! >>>>> Petrus >>>>> >>>>> "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message >>>>> news:4ba9c95e$0$20659$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... >>>>>> The PC has 2 hard disks. the boot one was created in november with a >>>>>> fresh windows home XP . It replaced the old Hitachi disk which was >>>>>> very slow. >>>>>> The Hitachi was installed as a slave primary to access the data. >>>>>> Last week, my daugther asked me to retrieve her personal contacts >>>>>> which were on the Hitachi. So I had to connect it as primary master >>>>>> and booted on it. That worked fine. >>>>>> When returning to the actual boot, the Hitachi disappeared and >>>>>> Windows sees it as unallocated. >>>>>> I suppect my USB memory key as the culprit. >>>>>> Are the data lost ? >>>>>> What to do know ? >>>>>> Please help. >>>>> >> Paul, Thanks for this thorough answer and comments. This is a lot of >> care. >> The Bios sees two disks. Cables setup and jumpers are correct; >> Windows disk manager sees a 137 Go not allocated disk (it is 160 Go ) and >> starts the init and conversion assistant for the disk.I refused that; >> Windows explorer nor disk defrag do not see the disk; >> Ubuntu 9.04 (Linux ) sees a 8.2 Go disk with 814 bad sectors. It >> realocated 809 sectors. >> No change in windows behavior after that. >> Should I run TestDisk under Ubuntu since windows does see the disk ? >> >> your advice is highly appreciated > > > It might be worth running a Hitachi diagnostics tool to check if the drive > is in order. Since you didn't mention which drive you have of theirs you > would need to confirm by checking before downloading the proper tool. > > > http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT > > -- > Jan Alter > bearpuf(a)verizon.net > >> The only diagnostic tool I see in your link is "OGT diagnostic tool". It does'not refer to the Dekstar model which I have.
From: Jan Alter on 25 Mar 2010 12:47 "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message news:4bab6919$0$30336$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... > "Jan Alter" <bearpuf(a)verizon.net> a �crit dans le message de groupe de > discussion : hofhhb$s3a$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message >> news:4bab134e$0$24168$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... >>> >>> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de >>> discussion : hodcdj$jm8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>> Sydney wrote: >>>>> No it is not All HDs are with cable select. Thanks anyhow >>>> >>>> I assume this is a desktop computer ? >>>> >>>> First step, is to enter the BIOS and verify that the BIOS sees >>>> two disk drives. There may be an IDE setup screen, which reports >>>> the detected hard drives and optical drive. If the ASCII text >>>> name of the drive is distorted, then you'd know there was a >>>> communications problem on the cable. The BIOS screen shows the >>>> results of the minimum effort to talk to the drive. >>>> >>>> If you're not seeing the disk in the BIOS, there is no point >>>> in working to find it in Windows. >>>> >>>> You'd review your cable setup and jumpers, to see if you missed >>>> something. Do both drives have power cables plugged in ? Is >>>> the power connector seated ? Are there any burned pins on the >>>> power connector ? Verify that if there are two drives on the >>>> cable, they're Master:Slave or CS:CS (and that the cable is >>>> 80 wire if CS:CS is chosen). >>>> >>>> If the drives are both detected in the BIOS, then you can use some >>>> OS to work on them. I use a Linux LiveCD, such as Ubuntu or Knoppix, to >>>> work on Windows disks. Linux can now read NTFS and FAT32, so it is no >>>> problem to work there. >>>> >>>> If they're visible in the BIOS, your next stop could be >>>> Disk Management in Windows. If you don't know how to find it, >>>> basically just run diskmgmt.msc . If you see two Disk entries >>>> but no partitions on the second disk, then it could be that >>>> the MBR (Master Boot Sector, that holds the four primary partition >>>> entries) is corrupted. >>>> >>>> The "TestDisk" program is an example of a free utility that can >>>> examine a disk and try to reconstruct the MBR. In the process of >>>> doing that, the program will be doing lots of reads on the disk, >>>> so it would give you some idea whether the disk is dying or not, >>>> just based on whether any errors are thrown or not. >>>> >>>> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk >>>> >>>> TestDisk isn't likely to be the solution to your problem. I find >>>> about 50% of the time, if I were to accept what it found, it would >>>> mess up the disk. It requires knowledge from the user, as to what it >>>> finds is reasonable or not. For example, if you know the disk had >>>> three partitions (C:, D:, hidden recovery) and it didn't find three >>>> entries, you'd know better than to accept its findings. >>>> >>>> In any case, at least work up to the step of using diskmgmt.msc >>>> to prove the disk is detected. If the disk is not there, you have >>>> to work on getting the hardware to access it, before any more progress >>>> can be made. >>>> >>>> If a disk has an internal failure, they're designed to not respond >>>> in the event of failure. I disagree with the design philosophy, but >>>> there >>>> it is. For example, some disks "disappear", when a defect table used >>>> in firmware overflows. So in some cases, the disk dying, is not >>>> mechanical or logical, and is a firmware bug. At least some firmware >>>> inspired bugs can easily be fixed by data recovery companies. >>>> >>>> In other cases, your own senses can give you an idea what happened to >>>> the drive. I had an old 2GB drive, and one day when I turned on the >>>> computer, I heard a loud "sproing" sound. That was the head assembly >>>> getting snagged in the landing ramp and being torn to shreds. When >>>> you hear a noise like that, you don't need a copy of TestDisk :-( >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Petrus Tax" <petrustax(a)earthlink.net> a �crit dans le message de >>>>> groupe de discussion : >>>>> iJadnWiF6pg7hzfWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>>>> Hello: >>>>>> This may be a more or less mechanical issue: jumper settings? cables >>>>>> tight? correct cables? >>>>>> HTH and good luck! >>>>>> Petrus >>>>>> >>>>>> "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message >>>>>> news:4ba9c95e$0$20659$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... >>>>>>> The PC has 2 hard disks. the boot one was created in november with a >>>>>>> fresh windows home XP . It replaced the old Hitachi disk which was >>>>>>> very slow. >>>>>>> The Hitachi was installed as a slave primary to access the data. >>>>>>> Last week, my daugther asked me to retrieve her personal contacts >>>>>>> which were on the Hitachi. So I had to connect it as primary master >>>>>>> and booted on it. That worked fine. >>>>>>> When returning to the actual boot, the Hitachi disappeared and >>>>>>> Windows sees it as unallocated. >>>>>>> I suppect my USB memory key as the culprit. >>>>>>> Are the data lost ? >>>>>>> What to do know ? >>>>>>> Please help. >>>>>> >>> Paul, Thanks for this thorough answer and comments. This is a lot of >>> care. >>> The Bios sees two disks. Cables setup and jumpers are correct; >>> Windows disk manager sees a 137 Go not allocated disk (it is 160 Go ) >>> and starts the init and conversion assistant for the disk.I refused >>> that; >>> Windows explorer nor disk defrag do not see the disk; >>> Ubuntu 9.04 (Linux ) sees a 8.2 Go disk with 814 bad sectors. It >>> realocated 809 sectors. >>> No change in windows behavior after that. >>> Should I run TestDisk under Ubuntu since windows does see the disk ? >>> >>> your advice is highly appreciated >> >> >> It might be worth running a Hitachi diagnostics tool to check if the >> drive is in order. Since you didn't mention which drive you have of >> theirs you would need to confirm by checking before downloading the >> proper tool. >> >> >> http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT >> >> -- >> Jan Alter >> bearpuf(a)verizon.net >> >>> > The only diagnostic tool I see in your link is "OGT diagnostic tool". > It does'not refer to the Dekstar model which I have. Download the 'CD Image' on that page and burn the ISO. It should give you a bootable disk that should work with the Deskstar. Read the pdf for it. -- Jan Alter bearpuf(a)verizon.net >
From: Paul on 25 Mar 2010 13:46 Sydney wrote: > > "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de > discussion : hodcdj$jm8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> Sydney wrote: >>> No it is not All HDs are with cable select. Thanks anyhow >> >> I assume this is a desktop computer ? >> >> First step, is to enter the BIOS and verify that the BIOS sees >> two disk drives. There may be an IDE setup screen, which reports >> the detected hard drives and optical drive. If the ASCII text >> name of the drive is distorted, then you'd know there was a >> communications problem on the cable. The BIOS screen shows the >> results of the minimum effort to talk to the drive. >> >> If you're not seeing the disk in the BIOS, there is no point >> in working to find it in Windows. >> >> You'd review your cable setup and jumpers, to see if you missed >> something. Do both drives have power cables plugged in ? Is >> the power connector seated ? Are there any burned pins on the >> power connector ? Verify that if there are two drives on the >> cable, they're Master:Slave or CS:CS (and that the cable is >> 80 wire if CS:CS is chosen). >> >> If the drives are both detected in the BIOS, then you can use some >> OS to work on them. I use a Linux LiveCD, such as Ubuntu or Knoppix, to >> work on Windows disks. Linux can now read NTFS and FAT32, so it is no >> problem to work there. >> >> If they're visible in the BIOS, your next stop could be >> Disk Management in Windows. If you don't know how to find it, >> basically just run diskmgmt.msc . If you see two Disk entries >> but no partitions on the second disk, then it could be that >> the MBR (Master Boot Sector, that holds the four primary partition >> entries) is corrupted. >> >> The "TestDisk" program is an example of a free utility that can >> examine a disk and try to reconstruct the MBR. In the process of >> doing that, the program will be doing lots of reads on the disk, >> so it would give you some idea whether the disk is dying or not, >> just based on whether any errors are thrown or not. >> >> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk >> >> TestDisk isn't likely to be the solution to your problem. I find >> about 50% of the time, if I were to accept what it found, it would >> mess up the disk. It requires knowledge from the user, as to what it >> finds is reasonable or not. For example, if you know the disk had >> three partitions (C:, D:, hidden recovery) and it didn't find three >> entries, you'd know better than to accept its findings. >> >> In any case, at least work up to the step of using diskmgmt.msc >> to prove the disk is detected. If the disk is not there, you have >> to work on getting the hardware to access it, before any more progress >> can be made. >> >> If a disk has an internal failure, they're designed to not respond >> in the event of failure. I disagree with the design philosophy, but there >> it is. For example, some disks "disappear", when a defect table used >> in firmware overflows. So in some cases, the disk dying, is not >> mechanical or logical, and is a firmware bug. At least some firmware >> inspired bugs can easily be fixed by data recovery companies. >> >> In other cases, your own senses can give you an idea what happened to >> the drive. I had an old 2GB drive, and one day when I turned on the >> computer, I heard a loud "sproing" sound. That was the head assembly >> getting snagged in the landing ramp and being torn to shreds. When >> you hear a noise like that, you don't need a copy of TestDisk :-( >> >> Paul >> >>> >>> "Petrus Tax" <petrustax(a)earthlink.net> a �crit dans le message de >>> groupe de discussion : iJadnWiF6pg7hzfWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>> Hello: >>>> This may be a more or less mechanical issue: jumper settings? cables >>>> tight? correct cables? >>>> HTH and good luck! >>>> Petrus >>>> >>>> "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message >>>> news:4ba9c95e$0$20659$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... >>>>> The PC has 2 hard disks. the boot one was created in november with >>>>> a fresh windows home XP . It replaced the old Hitachi disk which >>>>> was very slow. >>>>> The Hitachi was installed as a slave primary to access the data. >>>>> Last week, my daugther asked me to retrieve her personal contacts >>>>> which were on the Hitachi. So I had to connect it as primary master >>>>> and booted on it. That worked fine. >>>>> When returning to the actual boot, the Hitachi disappeared and >>>>> Windows sees it as unallocated. >>>>> I suppect my USB memory key as the culprit. >>>>> Are the data lost ? >>>>> What to do know ? >>>>> Please help. >>>> > Paul, Thanks for this thorough answer and comments. This is a lot of care. > The Bios sees two disks. Cables setup and jumpers are correct; > Windows disk manager sees a 137 Go not allocated disk (it is 160 Go ) > and starts the init and conversion assistant for the disk.I refused that; > Windows explorer nor disk defrag do not see the disk; > Ubuntu 9.04 (Linux ) sees a 8.2 Go disk with 814 bad sectors. It > realocated 809 sectors. > No change in windows behavior after that. > Should I run TestDisk under Ubuntu since windows does see the disk ? > > your advice is highly appreciated My first concern is, your OS reporting a "137 Go" disk. That means your WinXP doesn't have enough Service Pack installed. Imagine the following scenario. You have a 160GB disk. It has a single partition that uses all the space. Now, connect the disk to an OS that only supports up to 137GB. The OS attempts a write to a location on the disk, above the 137GB mark. Instantly, the file system is corrupted, due to address rollover on the IDE interface. This document addresses the issue a bit. It says, for Windows XP, you should be using Service Pack 1 or higher. If all you have is the original WinXP Gold release, then you could cause problems for the information on that disk. If you look in your Control Panels, for the "System" one, it will tell you the current Service Pack. Mine says "Version 2002 Service Pack 3". http://web.archive.org/web/20070121085230/http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.pdf I would not run any tools on the disk, until I was absolutely sure the computer you're using can handle a 160GB disk properly. The Seagate document suggests an UltraATA/133 PCI controller card as one solution. Another solution would be to use a USB to IDE disk enclosure for the hard drive. As far as I know, the USB Mass Storage driver comes in Service Pack 1 or later. The Ubuntu disc reporting an 8.2GB disk, suggests the motherboard is reporting a strange CHS value. The motherboard should be set for LBA, in which case a bogus value of CHS is used to signal that LBA is in use. I don't think I've ever had a Linux CD do that here. I have one 10 year old computer, that only supports up to 137GB in hardware, and don't remember seeing that as a symptom (8.2GB disks). I'd want to drop down into the BIOS setup screens and verify whether someone has been messing around with the settings there. CHS can only handle storage up to a certain size, and then a magic CHS value is supposed to indicate to the system that LBA is to be used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_Head_Sector http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/Large-Disk-HOWTO.html "Hard drives over 8.4 GB are supposed to report their geometry as 16383/16/63. This in effect means that the `geometry' is obsolete, and the total disk size can no longer be computed from the geometry, but is found in the LBA capacity field returned by the IDENTIFY command. Hard drives over 137.4 GB are supposed to report an LBA capacity of 0xfffffff = 268435455 sectors (137438952960 bytes). Now the actual disk size is found in the new 48-capacity field." In any case, you're not ready for tools like TestDisk, until the issues with seeing the disk fully are resolved. On my oldest computer, I can plug in my Promise Ultra133 TX2 PCI card, as a means to handle large disks (160GB or larger). Promise has stopped making those, but if you have one in your junk box, install it and its driver, and give that a try. To summarize: 1) To handle a 160GB disk, both the hardware and the operating system, must be able to deal with the large disk. You have received two indications (137 Go in Windows, 8.2 Go in Linux), that something is wrong with the reported geometry, as if the hardware isn't capable of operating with a large drive. 2) Windows will refuse to make a partition larger than 137 Go, if it isn't patched to the right Service Pack level. I don't really think that is your problem - the problem could be the age of the motherboard being used. 3) If the motherboard was designed before 2003, it is possible it isn't ready for large disks. If you use a PCI IDE controller card, you can fix that. Generally, "Ultra133" type cards are recommended, as Ultra133 is a feature of ATA/ATAPI 7, and was released after there was 48 bit LBA support for large disks. So when someone recommends an Ultra133 card, it is with the intention of getting a recent enough card to also have 48 bit LBA support. The fact the card supports large disks, may not be documented. The Ultra133 is a visible marketing term, while 48 bit LBA is less prominently mentioned. The ATA/ATAPI spec versions and feature sets are in a table here. If you get a card with Ultra133 support, that means the card was made around ATA/ATAPI-7 timeframe. Whereas, the feature you want, is support for 48 bit LBA, which came in ATA/ATAPI-6. There are some Ultra100 cards, that with a firmware update, are ready for large disks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA/ATAPI ******* Picture of an Ultra133 TX2. http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/1011195793.jpg Examples of the kinds of cards you can find now. This one uses an ITE8212 IDE chip (something that used to be provided on some motherboards). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158081 This card uses a VT6421A, and has one IDE connector and two SATA. When using a SATA drive with this, you'd insert the Force150 jumper. For IDE, there should be no special precautions. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158092 ******* Using an add-in card would require a driver. As long as you haven't allowed the OS to write to the disk, the information could still be OK on it. If you've been "reformatting" or doing other kinds of stuff, it could be in a real mess. Paul
From: Jan Alter on 25 Mar 2010 18:21
"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:hog7hp$kn$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > Sydney wrote: >> >> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de >> discussion : hodcdj$jm8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> Sydney wrote: >>>> No it is not All HDs are with cable select. Thanks anyhow >>> >>> I assume this is a desktop computer ? >>> >>> First step, is to enter the BIOS and verify that the BIOS sees >>> two disk drives. There may be an IDE setup screen, which reports >>> the detected hard drives and optical drive. If the ASCII text >>> name of the drive is distorted, then you'd know there was a >>> communications problem on the cable. The BIOS screen shows the >>> results of the minimum effort to talk to the drive. >>> >>> If you're not seeing the disk in the BIOS, there is no point >>> in working to find it in Windows. >>> >>> You'd review your cable setup and jumpers, to see if you missed >>> something. Do both drives have power cables plugged in ? Is >>> the power connector seated ? Are there any burned pins on the >>> power connector ? Verify that if there are two drives on the >>> cable, they're Master:Slave or CS:CS (and that the cable is >>> 80 wire if CS:CS is chosen). >>> >>> If the drives are both detected in the BIOS, then you can use some >>> OS to work on them. I use a Linux LiveCD, such as Ubuntu or Knoppix, to >>> work on Windows disks. Linux can now read NTFS and FAT32, so it is no >>> problem to work there. >>> >>> If they're visible in the BIOS, your next stop could be >>> Disk Management in Windows. If you don't know how to find it, >>> basically just run diskmgmt.msc . If you see two Disk entries >>> but no partitions on the second disk, then it could be that >>> the MBR (Master Boot Sector, that holds the four primary partition >>> entries) is corrupted. >>> >>> The "TestDisk" program is an example of a free utility that can >>> examine a disk and try to reconstruct the MBR. In the process of >>> doing that, the program will be doing lots of reads on the disk, >>> so it would give you some idea whether the disk is dying or not, >>> just based on whether any errors are thrown or not. >>> >>> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk >>> >>> TestDisk isn't likely to be the solution to your problem. I find >>> about 50% of the time, if I were to accept what it found, it would >>> mess up the disk. It requires knowledge from the user, as to what it >>> finds is reasonable or not. For example, if you know the disk had >>> three partitions (C:, D:, hidden recovery) and it didn't find three >>> entries, you'd know better than to accept its findings. >>> >>> In any case, at least work up to the step of using diskmgmt.msc >>> to prove the disk is detected. If the disk is not there, you have >>> to work on getting the hardware to access it, before any more progress >>> can be made. >>> >>> If a disk has an internal failure, they're designed to not respond >>> in the event of failure. I disagree with the design philosophy, but >>> there >>> it is. For example, some disks "disappear", when a defect table used >>> in firmware overflows. So in some cases, the disk dying, is not >>> mechanical or logical, and is a firmware bug. At least some firmware >>> inspired bugs can easily be fixed by data recovery companies. >>> >>> In other cases, your own senses can give you an idea what happened to >>> the drive. I had an old 2GB drive, and one day when I turned on the >>> computer, I heard a loud "sproing" sound. That was the head assembly >>> getting snagged in the landing ramp and being torn to shreds. When >>> you hear a noise like that, you don't need a copy of TestDisk :-( >>> >>> Paul >>> >>>> >>>> "Petrus Tax" <petrustax(a)earthlink.net> a �crit dans le message de >>>> groupe de discussion : >>>> iJadnWiF6pg7hzfWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>>> Hello: >>>>> This may be a more or less mechanical issue: jumper settings? cables >>>>> tight? correct cables? >>>>> HTH and good luck! >>>>> Petrus >>>>> >>>>> "Sydney" <kayzen(a)free.fr> wrote in message >>>>> news:4ba9c95e$0$20659$426a74cc(a)news.free.fr... >>>>>> The PC has 2 hard disks. the boot one was created in november with a >>>>>> fresh windows home XP . It replaced the old Hitachi disk which was >>>>>> very slow. >>>>>> The Hitachi was installed as a slave primary to access the data. >>>>>> Last week, my daugther asked me to retrieve her personal contacts >>>>>> which were on the Hitachi. So I had to connect it as primary master >>>>>> and booted on it. That worked fine. >>>>>> When returning to the actual boot, the Hitachi disappeared and >>>>>> Windows sees it as unallocated. >>>>>> I suppect my USB memory key as the culprit. >>>>>> Are the data lost ? >>>>>> What to do know ? >>>>>> Please help. >>>>> >> Paul, Thanks for this thorough answer and comments. This is a lot of >> care. >> The Bios sees two disks. Cables setup and jumpers are correct; >> Windows disk manager sees a 137 Go not allocated disk (it is 160 Go ) and >> starts the init and conversion assistant for the disk.I refused that; >> Windows explorer nor disk defrag do not see the disk; >> Ubuntu 9.04 (Linux ) sees a 8.2 Go disk with 814 bad sectors. It >> realocated 809 sectors. >> No change in windows behavior after that. >> Should I run TestDisk under Ubuntu since windows does see the disk ? >> >> your advice is highly appreciated > > My first concern is, your OS reporting a "137 Go" disk. That means > your WinXP doesn't have enough Service Pack installed. > > Imagine the following scenario. You have a 160GB disk. It has a single > partition that uses all the space. Now, connect the disk to an OS that > only supports up to 137GB. The OS attempts a write to a location on > the disk, above the 137GB mark. Instantly, the file system is corrupted, > due to address rollover on the IDE interface. > > This document addresses the issue a bit. It says, for Windows XP, you > should > be using Service Pack 1 or higher. If all you have is the original > WinXP Gold release, then you could cause problems for the information > on that disk. If you look in your Control Panels, for the "System" one, > it will tell you the current Service Pack. Mine says "Version 2002 > Service Pack 3". > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070121085230/http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.pdf > > I would not run any tools on the disk, until I was absolutely sure > the computer you're using can handle a 160GB disk properly. > > The Seagate document suggests an UltraATA/133 PCI controller card > as one solution. Another solution would be to use a USB to IDE > disk enclosure for the hard drive. As far as I know, the USB > Mass Storage driver comes in Service Pack 1 or later. > > The Ubuntu disc reporting an 8.2GB disk, suggests the motherboard > is reporting a strange CHS value. The motherboard should be > set for LBA, in which case a bogus value of CHS is used to > signal that LBA is in use. I don't think I've ever had a Linux > CD do that here. I have one 10 year old computer, that only supports > up to 137GB in hardware, and don't remember seeing that as a > symptom (8.2GB disks). I'd want to drop down into the BIOS setup screens > and verify whether someone has been messing around with the settings > there. > > CHS can only handle storage up to a certain size, and then a > magic CHS value is supposed to indicate to the system that > LBA is to be used. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_Head_Sector > > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/Large-Disk-HOWTO.html > > "Hard drives over 8.4 GB are supposed to report their geometry as > 16383/16/63. > This in effect means that the `geometry' is obsolete, and the total > disk size > can no longer be computed from the geometry, but is found in the LBA > capacity > field returned by the IDENTIFY command. Hard drives over 137.4 GB are > supposed > to report an LBA capacity of 0xfffffff = 268435455 sectors > (137438952960 bytes). > Now the actual disk size is found in the new 48-capacity field." > > In any case, you're not ready for tools like TestDisk, until > the issues with seeing the disk fully are resolved. > > On my oldest computer, I can plug in my Promise Ultra133 TX2 > PCI card, as a means to handle large disks (160GB or larger). > Promise has stopped making those, but if you have one in your > junk box, install it and its driver, and give that a try. > > To summarize: > > 1) To handle a 160GB disk, both the hardware and the operating system, > must be able to deal with the large disk. You have received two > indications (137 Go in Windows, 8.2 Go in Linux), that something > is wrong with the reported geometry, as if the hardware isn't > capable of operating with a large drive. > > 2) Windows will refuse to make a partition larger than 137 Go, if > it isn't patched to the right Service Pack level. I don't > really think that is your problem - the problem could be > the age of the motherboard being used. > > 3) If the motherboard was designed before 2003, it is possible > it isn't ready for large disks. If you use a PCI IDE controller > card, you can fix that. Generally, "Ultra133" type cards are > recommended, as Ultra133 is a feature of ATA/ATAPI 7, and was > released after there was 48 bit LBA support for large disks. > So when someone recommends an Ultra133 card, it is with the intention > of getting a recent enough card to also have 48 bit LBA support. > The fact the card supports large disks, may not be documented. > The Ultra133 is a visible marketing term, while 48 bit LBA is > less prominently mentioned. > > The ATA/ATAPI spec versions and feature sets are in a table here. > If you get a card with Ultra133 support, that means the card > was made around ATA/ATAPI-7 timeframe. Whereas, the feature you > want, is support for 48 bit LBA, which came in ATA/ATAPI-6. > There are some Ultra100 cards, that with a firmware update, > are ready for large disks. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA/ATAPI > > ******* > Picture of an Ultra133 TX2. > > http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/1011195793.jpg > > Examples of the kinds of cards you can find now. This one uses > an ITE8212 IDE chip (something that used to be provided on > some motherboards). > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158081 > > This card uses a VT6421A, and has one IDE connector and two SATA. > When using a SATA drive with this, you'd insert the Force150 jumper. > For IDE, there should be no special precautions. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158092 > ******* > > Using an add-in card would require a driver. > > As long as you haven't allowed the OS to write to the disk, > the information could still be OK on it. If you've been > "reformatting" or doing other kinds of stuff, it could be > in a real mess. > > Paul Nice catch with the '137 G' Paul. That went right by me. It would be nice to know how old the machine is and just as important if the OS patches have been applied to SP2. If the patches get applied and the disk still can't be seen or in its entirety I would then try the diagnostics utility, although in trying it at anytime I don't quite see a problem as long as one doesn't ask the utility to do any formating.. -- Jan Alter bearpuf(a)verizon.net |