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From: VanguardLH on 31 May 2010 23:35
CrackerJack wrote:

> <snip>
>
>>>> The shipper is YOUR choice: FedEx or UPS (USPS is not listed as an
>>>> option unless perhaps they are forced to use USPS for APO/FPO
>>>> military).
>>>
>>> Did I say it wasn't?
>
>>Um, YOU were the one that asked how it got shipped yet now you claim
>>that you knew it was your choice. Uh huh. YOU asked "How was it
>>shipped?". Now you claim you already know it was your choice so why did
>>you ask?
>
> To get a feel for if failures might be related to the method of shipment. I guess it was to difficult
> for you to understand.
>
> If I got 100 responses and 50 said UPS and 50 said Fedex, but 80% of ppl getting them by UPS
> had failures and 5& shipped FedX had problems it could be meaningful.
>
> Chill out dude... I was simply trying to poll people and perhaps draw some conclusions.

NOTE: Please submit your reply to the poster to whom you are replying,
not to yourself. That keeps the replies collected under a subthread
rather than scattering them about. Perhaps the threading defect is a
problem related to the newsreader that you use. Doesn't Newsleecher
allow for subthreads?


I doubt you would ever get even a fraction of the number of replies you
suggest (that specifically address who had damaged deliveries or DOAs
when using which shipper). You'll probably get less than half a dozen
related replies, hardly a count that would generate good statistics.

Newegg has pretty good return policies. So matter which shipper you
choose, you would still have to report the damaged delivery or DOA to
Newegg to get a replacement. I would think a vendor's return or
replacement policy and their reputation to honor that policy would be
far more important than which shipper got used. People are people and
you get a mixed confluence of behaviors from all of them, so I doubt
there is much differentiation between whether FedEx or UPS got used.
Again, probably more important to you is how close is the nearest branch
office where you could pickup a package in case they cannot or refuse to
deliver to your home. For me, FedEx is far closer for a package pickup
than UPS in case I have to do a package pickup.

There is really only one difference that I've noted over decades of
experience with deliveries made by UPS and FedEx. FedEx is more likely
to leave a note on my door and tell me they will retry delivery. UPS
does that, too, but only if they take the package with them. If UPS
dumps the package under the recycle bin (to hide it by the fence gate)
or tosses it across my driveway into my garage (if I leave the door
open) then I don't get a door note but also don't know that I received
the package until I hap upon it. While UPS has sometimes tossed a
package several feet into my open garage (I have dogs and a warning sign
on the fence gate), I've had FedEx drop the boxes for my $2500 computer
parts on the curb outside my fence where anyone could've taken it.
People are people and you'll have good and bad experiences with either
UPS or FedEx. So rely on the vendor (Newegg, in this case) to make good
on any missing or damaged deliveries or defective merchandise.

If USPS were in the mix of available shippers (which I don't see at
Newegg) then, yeah, I'd put USPS at the bottom with FedEx and UPS as
better but equal to each other (but not regarding their pricing since
FedEx Ground is usually cheaper than UPS Ground). My prices (not
Newegg's) for shipping a 20x20x10" 5-lb $100 valued package from my
Midwest city to one in California between home residences was:

USPS: $13.62 (parcel post + insurance)
UPS: $14.08 (UPS Ground, insurance included)
FedEx: $12.90 (FedEx Home Delivery, insurance included)

I picked a hard disk (that did not include free shipping - sometimes
tough to find for this product type) at Newegg and then checked what
were the different shipping costs, which were:

USPS: not available
UPS: $7.86 (3-day)
FedEx: $15.24 (3-day)

For the difference of $7.38, I'd go with UPS and not care about any
difference as to whether UPS or FedEx had a record of more damaged
deliveries, and rely on Newegg's good reputation regarding return
policies to handle the damaged deliveries or DOAs.

I've too often seen USPS workers take a box marked fragile and
deliberately lift and smash it down on the conveyor belt to purposely
damage it. I've seen them take boxes marked "This side up" and turn
them upside down (while also smashing them down). I've seen USPS
workers hurl packages across the room trying to aim for a bin far away
(and miss it but even if a hit they are smacking the boxes at each
other). I've seen UPS toss packages, too, but then I've seen FedEx
leave packages in unsecured spots so those behaviors balance each other
out. Unless someone makes comment, I know of no special requirements
that would provide for select employment of better behaved worked by
USPS, UPS, or FedEx.

Since anyone may end up working at any of these shippers, I'd probably
bias my opinions of who best handles my deliveries based on their
salaries figuring a better paid employee would be happier and less
likely to damage my packages. USPS employees earn around $83K/yr (total
of all wages & benefits), $72K/yr + $30K/yr for benefits by USP folks
(http://postalemployeenetwork.com/news/2010/04/ups-and-fedex-incomes/).
Of course, having a higher salary doesn't guarantee a happier employee,
and a happier employee may not guarantee less damage in deliverying your
packages (i.e., perhaps the employee is happy because they enjoy
smashing your packages).

USPS employees:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=U.S._Postal_Service_(USPS)/Salary

UPS employees:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=United_Parcel_Service_(UPS)%2c_Inc./Salary

FedEx employees:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Federal_Express_Corporation_(FedEx)/Salary

I personally found that using USPS is okay as long as I insure it
(uninsured packages too often "disappear" in the USPS route). I've had
less packages disappear with UPS (which includes some insurance) or with
FedEx. Of course, my experiences hardly constitute accurate statistics
regarding lost packages. I haven't found good stats on lost packages.
One set of figures (http://boykin.acis.ufl.edu/?p=118) was:

USPS: 1.2%
UPS: 0.8%
FedEx: 0.55%

There might be specific stats at each shipper's web site but I'm really
not that interested in doing the research.
From: Flasherly on 1 Jun 2010 03:06
On May 31, 9:37 am, CrackerJack <CrackerJ...(a)home.net> wrote:
> It is not uncommon to see 25-30% failure rates on reviews of many drives at Newegg. I have wondered
> if this is MFG issue or related the shipping methods or bogus reviews.
>
> I have purchased Seagate, WD and Hitachi drives and have had no failures. Some were shipped in
> the bubblewrap and some in the original box.
>
> If you have purchased a drive from Newegg in the last year that failed, what brand was it and
> how was it shipped? UPS/FEDX/USPS... bubble wrapped or OEM box?
>
> cj

Never had that problem - shipping. Sounds weird to me. Had drives
from NEgg fail, though. WD, IBM hence pre-Hitachi. Seagate was once
fantastic, though lately leaning into Samsung.

Read what you want to into reviews, or cross your fingers and don't,
just don't blame the innocent bubbles.

It's a pretty good time for drives now, overall. Sweet prices between
the 1-2T range. Moved a batch of DVDs aside last evening, likely
destined for the garbage.

Bloody bleeding edge, though sure as hell won't miss burning boxes of
them.
From: Ron on 1 Jun 2010 11:14
On 6/1/2010 12:06 AM, Flasherly wrote:
> On May 31, 9:37 am, CrackerJack<CrackerJ...(a)home.net> wrote:
>> It is not uncommon to see 25-30% failure rates on reviews of many drives at Newegg. I have wondered
>> if this is MFG issue or related the shipping methods or bogus reviews.
>>
>> I have purchased Seagate, WD and Hitachi drives and have had no failures. Some were shipped in
>> the bubblewrap and some in the original box.
>>
>> If you have purchased a drive from Newegg in the last year that failed, what brand was it and
>> how was it shipped? UPS/FEDX/USPS... bubble wrapped or OEM box?
>>
>> cj
>
> Never had that problem - shipping. Sounds weird to me. Had drives
> from NEgg fail, though. WD, IBM hence pre-Hitachi. Seagate was once
> fantastic, though lately leaning into Samsung.
>
> Read what you want to into reviews, or cross your fingers and don't,
> just don't blame the innocent bubbles.
>
> It's a pretty good time for drives now, overall. Sweet prices between
> the 1-2T range. Moved a batch of DVDs aside last evening, likely
> destined for the garbage.
>
> Bloody bleeding edge, though sure as hell won't miss burning boxes of
> them.

Wait! Hot glue those old DVDs to the ceiling for a lovely retro disco
effect! Probably buy you some privacy, too...
From: Flasherly on 3 Jun 2010 14:33
On Jun 1, 11:14 am, Ron <rmoor...(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On 6/1/2010 12:06 AM, Flasherly wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 31, 9:37 am, CrackerJack<CrackerJ...(a)home.net> wrote:
> >> It is not uncommon to see 25-30% failure rates on reviews of many drives at Newegg. I have wondered
> >> if this is MFG issue or related the shipping methods or bogus reviews.
>
> >> I have purchased Seagate, WD and Hitachi drives and have had no failures. Some were shipped in
> >> the bubblewrap and some in the original box.
>
> >> If you have purchased a drive from Newegg in the last year that failed, what brand was it and
> >> how was it shipped? UPS/FEDX/USPS... bubble wrapped or OEM box?
>
> >> cj
>
> > Never had that problem - shipping. Sounds weird to me. Had drives
> > from NEgg fail, though. WD, IBM hence pre-Hitachi. Seagate was once
> > fantastic, though lately leaning into Samsung.
>
> > Read what you want to into reviews, or cross your fingers and don't,
> > just don't blame the innocent bubbles.
>
> > It's a pretty good time for drives now, overall. Sweet prices between
> > the 1-2T range. Moved a batch of DVDs aside last evening, likely
> > destined for the garbage.
>
> > Bloody bleeding edge, though sure as hell won't miss burning boxes of
> > them.
>
> Wait! Hot glue those old DVDs to the ceiling for a lovely retro disco
> effect! Probably buy you some privacy, too...

Retro ???

How about dejavu from filling the trash barrel with 360s, then 1.44s
-- oh, and of course the "ultimate" Q40/60 tapes from Colorado
drives. I saw this morning where Seagate is selling their 7200 1T and
1.5T green offering for around $40 in CompUSA. Rebated, of course --
though even rebates are evolving, they're PRE-rebates now: 1st have to
go somewhere to sign up your John Doe & personal info for the shill,
in order to get "authorized" for the rebate form. Seagate's I noted
is in AZ, someplace familiar sounding where the St. Attorney Gen's.
Office no doubt has closed tons of their likes already.

Hard to believe rebates originated by a Presidential attempt to lend
fair pricing to the Am. auto industry.
From: RayLopez99 on 4 Jun 2010 04:27
On May 31, 4:58 pm, "Man-wai Chang to The Door (33600bps)"
<toylet.toy...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have purchased Seagate, WD and Hitachi drives and have had no failures. Some were shipped in
> > the bubblewrap and some in the original box.
>
> Have you ever tested Samsung's hard disks?
>

HD freaky facts below.

RL

Today I want to talk to all of you about a fantastic study Google did
on hard drive failure rates. Google uses regular old consumer grade
desktop hard drives in its worldwide data servers. The same hard
drives you would find inside your computer today. They collected, over
the course of their history, an enormous amount of data about under
which conditions those hard drives fail, and how likely hard drives
are to fail. It’s a heavily technical 13 page report, and if you have
the time you can read it here:

http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf

But for those of you who just want to know the conclusions, here are
the really interesting points of the article:

1) Hard drives fail a lot more often when young than we might like to
think. Google found that 3% of all hard drives fail within 3 months.
Scarier still? 7% of all hard drives fail within 1 year. This means
you have a 1 in 14 chance of your hard drive failing within the first
year. So, just because your computer is new does not mean you don’t
have to back it up.

2) Hard drives frequently fail without any warning at all. This isn’t
really news to me, but it’s nice to see statistics that confirm it.
Google found that only 56% of the hard drives that failed showed
warning signs of failure before they died. So there is a 44% chance
you will have no warning at all before your hard drive goes, one day
it works, the next day it poofs.

3) Use is not a factor in hard drive failure. Google found no
corolation between how much a hard drive had been used, and when it
failed. We often hear, “well, but I only use my hard drives on
weekends for 15 minutes, so shouldn’t it last forever?” This proves
that is not true. Hard drives decay with age, regardless of use.

4) Temperature is probably not a factor in hard drive failure. Google
found no corolation between hard drive failure and drive temperature,
but the study does acknowledge that the sample set is problematic,
because google data centers are all temperature controlled. Previous
studies have found a connection between temperature and drive failure,
with too cold being more of a factor than too hot.

5) Google found the five year failure rate of hard drives to be 39%
with a margin of error of about 9%. This means after five years,
somewhere between 30% and 48% of all hard drives have failed. This
tracks pretty closely to what we see here in the shop, where 4-6 year
old computers often have dead hard drives.

So what does this mean for you all of you? A few things:

1) Youth or inexperience is no defense of not making backups. Even
young hard drives, or hard drives that are infrequently used, fail at
a suprisingly high rate.

2) As we always say in posts like these, make backups! Most fo you
know that we reccomend Mozy:

http://www.mozy.com/?kbid=42743

Which is a daily on-line backup solution. Basically it uses your
internet connection to backup your stuff to a server outside your
house. This provides you with “What if the house burns down?”
protection, as well as, “but I never remember to make backups!”
protection.

So yeah, neat stuff from google there!

Thanks,

-Zac
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