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From: Archimedes' Lever on 28 Mar 2010 13:21
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:34:17 -0500, AZ Nomad
<aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:24:19 -0400, Ecnerwal <MyNameForward(a)ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>>In article <honuq6$ptu$1(a)adenine.netfront.net>,
>> Gary Peek <mylastname(a)mycompanyname.com> wrote:
>
>>> Any NiCad battery experts out there? For a NiCad battery pack that
>>> has not been in use for a long time, like a year, and has discharged
>>> well below the point of operating the circuit it was powering, what
>>> is the best way to restore it to use? Is charging it in the normal
>>> manner good enough, or are a couple of charge/discharge cycles better?
>>>
>>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news(a)netfront.net ---
>
>>Depends what state it's in. Often at that point you're needing to zap it
>>with a good-sized electrolytic capacitor, which might typically get it
>>from holding a charge for 5 minutes or less to holding a charge for
>>perhaps half the original life, if you are lucky. Otherwise, or if you
>>need full performance, replace it. Try a normal charge cycle first, if
>>your charger will even talk to it.
>
>>The capacitor zap supposedly burns off little dendrites that perforate
>>the cells. I don't really know - I do know that it does sometimes work
>>to restore useful, if not full, function to old batteries.
>
>I've never seen it work well enough to be work the bother.
>
>I find that nicads and nimh batteries do great when in use, but quit using
>them and leave them to discharge and stay that way and they'll be ruined.
>Seen that happen with at least 5 sets. Not sure about li-ion batteries.
>Bought two for a used laptop where one was in regular use, the other
>sitting in the docking station. The docking station one now has about half
>the capacity just from sitting around neglected for two years with only the
>occasional charge.


Could be a function of being constantly 'topped off' as well.

Nimh batteries seem to have a longer zero use shelf life. They all
have a limited total life span, and NiCads are the worst in that arena,
which is why the entire world is using the more advanced technologies.

The mil boys use Lithium Magnese Dioxide non-rechargeables as their long
life, ultra stable source. That should tell you something about
rechargeables in general, and their inferred level of reliability.
From: John O'Flaherty on 28 Mar 2010 18:46
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:12:53 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
<OneBigLever(a)InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:24:19 -0400, Ecnerwal
><MyNameForward(a)ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>In article <honuq6$ptu$1(a)adenine.netfront.net>,
>> Gary Peek <mylastname(a)mycompanyname.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Any NiCad battery experts out there? For a NiCad battery pack that
>>> has not been in use for a long time, like a year, and has discharged
>>> well below the point of operating the circuit it was powering, what
>>> is the best way to restore it to use? Is charging it in the normal
>>> manner good enough, or are a couple of charge/discharge cycles better?
>>>
>>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news(a)netfront.net ---
>>
>>Depends what state it's in. Often at that point you're needing to zap it
>>with a good-sized electrolytic capacitor, which might typically get it
>>from holding a charge for 5 minutes or less to holding a charge for
>>perhaps half the original life, if you are lucky. Otherwise, or if you
>>need full performance, replace it. Try a normal charge cycle first, if
>>your charger will even talk to it.
>>
>>The capacitor zap supposedly burns off little dendrites that perforate
>>the cells. I don't really know - I do know that it does sometimes work
>>to restore useful, if not full, function to old batteries.
>
>
> I haven't seen this level of total horseshit in the group in a while.

It's an exaggeration to call this procedure horseshit.

> What size cap? What voltage does it need to be topped off to for a given
>battery voltage?

The biggest electrolytic you have around, charged as high as you can
get it within its voltage rating. You can try 10 mF at 30 V, for
example.

>What does it do to the watchdog chips commonly
>incorporated into battery packs?

Plenty of (most?) NiCd battery packs don't have any such chip. If you
have a sealed array of cells that has such a chip, it's a goner
anyhow, right?

> What do you do for multiple battery
>arrays as opposed to reviving a single cell?

You try to charge the pack in the normal way, and measure the
individual cells with a voltmeter. The cells that remain at just above
zero volts are the shorted ones.

Applying a sudden current pulse can burn away the short circuit, and
the cell will then take a charge. As long as it is kept charged, it
will burn away its own short circuits.

The entire battery pack is probably on its last legs when any cell
goes shorted, so what is the area of use for this procedure?
When you find on Friday that your battery pack won't take a charge,
you've ordered new cells but won't get them until Monday afternoon,
and you really want to use the device over the weekend.

--
John


From: krw on 28 Mar 2010 20:25
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:46:26 -0500, John O'Flaherty <quiasmox(a)yeeha.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:12:53 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
><OneBigLever(a)InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:24:19 -0400, Ecnerwal
>><MyNameForward(a)ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <honuq6$ptu$1(a)adenine.netfront.net>,
>>> Gary Peek <mylastname(a)mycompanyname.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any NiCad battery experts out there? For a NiCad battery pack that
>>>> has not been in use for a long time, like a year, and has discharged
>>>> well below the point of operating the circuit it was powering, what
>>>> is the best way to restore it to use? Is charging it in the normal
>>>> manner good enough, or are a couple of charge/discharge cycles better?
>>>>
>>>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news(a)netfront.net ---
>>>
>>>Depends what state it's in. Often at that point you're needing to zap it
>>>with a good-sized electrolytic capacitor, which might typically get it
>>>from holding a charge for 5 minutes or less to holding a charge for
>>>perhaps half the original life, if you are lucky. Otherwise, or if you
>>>need full performance, replace it. Try a normal charge cycle first, if
>>>your charger will even talk to it.
>>>
>>>The capacitor zap supposedly burns off little dendrites that perforate
>>>the cells. I don't really know - I do know that it does sometimes work
>>>to restore useful, if not full, function to old batteries.
>>
>>
>> I haven't seen this level of total horseshit in the group in a while.
>
>It's an exaggeration to call this procedure horseshit.

Please understand, John. DimBulb got his name "AlwaysWrong" for good reason.
He's the NG's pet (is always crapping on the carpet) loon. Did I mention that
AlwaysWrong is *always* wrong? He goes by at *least* 77 names, too, so be
careful or you'll step in more of his droppings.

From: Archimedes' Lever on 28 Mar 2010 21:05
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:39:51 -0500, John O'Flaherty <quiasmox(a)yeeha.com>
wrote:

> originally about a battery pack the status of which was
>unknown.

No. READ the title of the thread. It was and is about a battery that
has been on a shelf for a while, NOT a faulty NOR suspected faulty
battery. That would be more than evident when it was being brought back
into usage at various stages along the way, most importantly, the first,
which is nearly always attempting to charge it, not checking cell
voltages, so despite how 'smart' you want to make yourself seem, you have
to discuss this from a typical consumer POV. They are not going to be
running out for test gear or taking apart the battery packs.

Batteries that are encapsulated in plastic enclosures use thicker
walled plastic and it is ultrasonically welded to seal it, and there is
no per cell access in most, if not all cases. Of course there are open
cell arrays with little spot welded conductors spanning between the
cells, where one would have per cell access.

If he has individual cells, it is very easy to determine viability.
From: Proteus IIV on 28 Mar 2010 21:28
On Mar 28, 1:15 pm, Archimedes' Lever <OneBigLe...(a)InfiniteSeries.Org>
wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:31:24 -0500, AZ Nomad
>
> <aznoma...(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
> >On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:06:30 -0500, Gary Peek <mylastn...(a)mycompanyname.com> wrote:
> >>Any NiCad battery experts out there? For a NiCad battery pack that
> >>has not been in use for a long time, like a year, and has discharged
> >>well below the point of operating the circuit it was powering, what
> >>is the best way to restore it to use? Is charging it in the normal
> >>manner good enough, or are a couple of charge/discharge cycles better?
>
> >It's probably trash.
>
>   Good answer.  Old NiCads will still work, but not very well.  If it
> isn't made within the last few years, it is probably too old to work
> with.
>
>   They end up working like slow charge, quick discharge, leaky
> capacitors. Really, really bad ones.

IWE ARE ALL STILL GROSS OUT WITH THE DISCHARGE FROM YOUR ANUS SO CAN
IT TROLL
GET LOST ! ! !

I AM PROTEUS
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