OWLS is not equal to c
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From: Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com on 1 Jun 2005 20:40 >>But it *does* require you to assume that speed of propagation in the wires is independent of direction. Thus essentially begging the question, eh? << Not if the two wires are coming in the same direction, it doesn't. Besides, all this can be tested before the experiment even begins, by varying gate placement and wire direction. Any such effects will show themselves during that phase, will they not? And anyway, what are we testing here? Isotropy of speed of light in direction of space? Or invarience of speed of photons emitted from a moving source (such as a neutral pion?). For the second experiment, you do your gates, and then only the speed of the pion source varies after that. Since that's the only variable, it's the only variable. End of story. SBH
From: bz on 1 Jun 2005 20:35 russell(a)mdli.com wrote in news:1117669699.050281.55090 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > But it *does* require you to assume that speed of > propagation in the wires is independent of direction. > Thus essentially begging the question, eh? Testable. So no assumption needed. Or to be more specific, speed of propagation through the coax is measurable with the coax in many different physical configurations and could easily be shown to be independent of configuration (baring kinks or other physical damage). -- bz please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
From: bz on 1 Jun 2005 20:39 "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote in news:1117669727.763853.30680(a)f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > It is theoretically possible that the universe is involved in a > conspiracy. >:-) > > If you synchronize your gamma-photon detector gates, then separate > them, the signal speed in the return path through your cables could > vary in exactly such a way as to cancel out your ability to detect > OWLS anisotropy. Double the cable length and run the experiment again. or Change the cable for one with a different velocity factor and run the experiment again. > Yes, quite a bizarre coincidence. But "Test theories" have been > developed in which this is exactly the case. > http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html > > "Test theories" are an experimental tool, not intended to be > considered serious alternatives to SR. Rather, they offer a > descriptive framework for quantifying any deviations from > theory that might be observed. > -- bz please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
From: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox on 1 Jun 2005 21:07 Dear bz: "bz" <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote in message news:Xns9668C7EDAD4DDWQAHBGMXSZHVspammote(a)130.39.198.139... > "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote in > news:1117669727.763853.30680(a)f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > >> It is theoretically possible that the universe is involved in >> a >> conspiracy. >>:-) >> >> If you synchronize your gamma-photon detector gates, then >> separate >> them, the signal speed in the return path through your cables >> could >> vary in exactly such a way as to cancel out your ability to >> detect >> OWLS anisotropy. > > Double the cable length and run the experiment again. > or > Change the cable for one with a different velocity factor and > run the > experiment again. length = TWLS measurement. Already forces a measurement of "OWLS"=c. David A. Smith
From: russell on 1 Jun 2005 21:13
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>But it *does* require you to assume that speed of > propagation in the wires is independent of direction. > Thus essentially begging the question, eh? << > > Not if the two wires are coming in the same direction, it doesn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the setup is that you have one wire coming from your source and another from your detector, which are in different positions. That being the case, how can the wires "come in the same direction" for their entire length? > Besides, all this can be tested before the experiment even begins, by > varying gate placement and wire direction. Any such effects will show > themselves during that phase, will they not? Not independently of one's sychronization convention. > > And anyway, what are we testing here? Isotropy of speed of light in > direction of space? Or invarience of speed of photons emitted from a > moving source (such as a neutral pion?). For the second experiment, you > do your gates, and then only the speed of the pion source varies after > that. Since that's the only variable, it's the only variable. End of > story. Ok yes, you *can* verify the independence of one-way light speed wrt the speed of the source. But you still won't know *what* that OWLS is, i.e. have a numeric figure for it, independent of your synchronization convention. If you've already acknowledged this (essentially trivial) point, my apologies. I haven't been following the thread that well. (And of course that's not to say the experiment isn't worth doing. Independence from source velocity is a major result; my objection is indeed trivial in the sense that it applies to *every* result that could be obtained experimentally.) |