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From: Gnack Nol on 4 Jul 2010 16:37
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 02:35:05 -0500, Jim wrote:

> A general thanks to all who replied. I know this was a long shot for an
> online question.
>
> The main mystery is that the only visible switches control the inside
> garage light (seen in photo) and the light outside the small garage door.
> It is not a detached garage, as someone implied.
>
> If one of those two wall switches (inside the garage) also controls the
> high outside garage light, it wasn't a very practical setup - to have two
> lights on at once, inside and out. Is that a known common configuration
> from the old days?
>
> Taking apart the wires in the box isn't practical at the moment (long
> story) but I'm sure some answer lies therein. I might end up bypassing the
> existing wire entirely and routing a temp. wire from a regular wall plug.
>
> Jim


Here goes, this is a long shot answer Jim but do you by chance happen to
have a switch in what is or was the living room that seems disconnected?

It was fairly common in old wiring to put the switch for the garage in a
cluster with the living room and front porch lighting switches even
occasionally wiring the garage and porch lights to the same switch.

Also something that you may have missed, the oulet may have been fully
powered all of the time and a screw in pull chain switch ( these were
very common ) used to turn the light on and off. Look for an inoperable
fuse or breaker in your fuse box.

Gnack
From: Jim on 5 Jul 2010 15:35
Gnack Nol <mchozfcesujcfc(a)mailinator.com> wrote in
news:pan.2010.07.04.20.37.49.691424(a)mailinator.com:

> Here goes, this is a long shot answer Jim but do you by chance happen
> to have a switch in what is or was the living room that seems
> disconnected?
>
> It was fairly common in old wiring to put the switch for the garage in
> a cluster with the living room and front porch lighting switches even
> occasionally wiring the garage and porch lights to the same switch.
>
> Also something that you may have missed, the oulet may have been fully
> powered all of the time and a screw in pull chain switch ( these were
> very common ) used to turn the light on and off. Look for an
> inoperable fuse or breaker in your fuse box.

I should have noted that I'd already checked for "phantom" switches, and
there ARE two in the kitchen, but nothing happens. It's possible that one
of them was supposed to control the garage exterior light, but there's an
independent fault. I should try replacing those switches.

A pull-chain was one of the first things I looked for. The garage is
cluttered and may yet have more hiding places.

Jim
From: Jim on 5 Jul 2010 15:46
KR <kenreed1999(a)gmail.com> wrote in
news:1f6a506f-acc1-4c95-aec2-58edaea5a7bd(a)u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

> I don't know how things are done in the US, but I have yet to hear of
> an electrical contractor making
> such a diagram for a residential install, and even if he did, you
> would have Buckleys chance of ever finding it unless it was in the
> house.
>
> I would consider it also very likely that the contractor and others
> involved would now be dead, or pretty close to that state.

Likely dead or festering. It often amazes me that half-century old stuff
lasts as long as it does, especially wire insulation. The main leads coming
out of the fixture on the garage ceiling have a cloth type of outer
insulation, but seem hardy. Makes you wonder how modern materials will
ultimately hold up.

> If you think that the wire is brittle - GET IT REPLACED - otherwise
> you have serious risk of an electrical fire.
> especially if any insulation fell off, or was in the bottom of that
> box when you opened it.

Not so much ready to crumble, but jammed into the box in such a way that I
wasn't sure I could shove them back in without metal-fatigue. I think I'll
replace the box with a bigger one and see where everything leads to.

I have limited jurisdiction over modifying this house; doing casual repairs
for other people. Mainly looking for best guesses or old-timer knowledge of
switch locations. Some things obviously can't be answered online.

Jim
From: Gnack Nol on 5 Jul 2010 16:09
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:35:20 -0500, Jim wrote:

> Gnack Nol <mchozfcesujcfc(a)mailinator.com> wrote in
> news:pan.2010.07.04.20.37.49.691424(a)mailinator.com:
>
>> Here goes, this is a long shot answer Jim but do you by chance happen
>> to have a switch in what is or was the living room that seems
>> disconnected?
>>
>> It was fairly common in old wiring to put the switch for the garage in
>> a cluster with the living room and front porch lighting switches even
>> occasionally wiring the garage and porch lights to the same switch.
>>
>> Also something that you may have missed, the oulet may have been fully
>> powered all of the time and a screw in pull chain switch ( these were
>> very common ) used to turn the light on and off. Look for an inoperable
>> fuse or breaker in your fuse box.
>
> I should have noted that I'd already checked for "phantom" switches, and
> there ARE two in the kitchen, but nothing happens. It's possible that
> one of them was supposed to control the garage exterior light, but
> there's an independent fault. I should try replacing those switches.
>
> A pull-chain was one of the first things I looked for. The garage is
> cluttered and may yet have more hiding places.
>
> Jim


What I was refering to is the type of screw in one that goes between the
socke and bulb usuall with two outlets on it. Those were most common.

I'd guess the two switches that you located are in some way related to
this fixture probably one was to control the garage door or some ouside
light fixture and one for the inside light.

Old switches are likely to develop bad contacts that will not conduct even
when the switch still clicks.

Above all be very careful if you decide to replace the switches it's best
to turn off the mains until you are through.

Gnack
From: KR on 13 Jul 2010 04:51
On Jul 6, 5:46 am, Jim <jim857...(a)jim.com> wrote:
> KR <kenreed1...(a)gmail.com> wrote innews:1f6a506f-acc1-4c95-aec2-58edaea5a7bd(a)u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I don't know how things are done in the US, but I have yet to hear of
> > an electrical contractor making
> > such a diagram for a residential install, and even if he did, you
> > would have Buckleys chance of ever finding it unless it was in the
> > house.
>
> > I would consider it also very likely that the contractor and others
> > involved would now be dead, or pretty close to that state.
>
> Likely dead or festering. It often amazes me that half-century old stuff
> lasts as long as it does, especially wire insulation. The main leads coming
> out of the fixture on the garage ceiling have a cloth type of outer
> insulation, but seem hardy. Makes you wonder how modern materials will
> ultimately hold up.
>
>


Have seen low voltage plastic coated wire in 1950's equipment that is
still serviceable.
A lot of other stuff amazingly holds up well too, as long as it hasnt
been abused or corroded.

Capacitors are a different story.



> > If you think that the wire is brittle - GET IT REPLACED - otherwise
> > you have serious risk of an electrical fire.
> > especially if any insulation fell off, or was in the bottom of that
> > box when you opened it.
>
> Not so much ready to crumble, but jammed into the box in such a way that I
> wasn't sure I could shove them back in without metal-fatigue. I think I'll
> replace the box with a bigger one and see where everything leads to.
>
> I have limited jurisdiction over modifying this house; doing casual repairs
> for other people. Mainly looking for best guesses or old-timer knowledge of
> switch locations. Some things obviously can't be answered online.
>
> Jim


Old Australian house wiring had a cloth covering, but a rubber
insulation underneath. (then the wire in the centre of course)

This rubber would harden with age, and and movement of the wire would
result in the rubber then cracking, breaking
into pieces and falling away from the wire.
This would ultimately result in arcing and usually a fire, if in a
metal conduit (commonplace in the old days) then this would be the
thing it shorted to.

The parts shown do not look like AUS electrical fittings, so the wire
shown may be better or worse than I described.


I would recommend that this install be checked over by a qualified
electrician and a rewire done if needed.


Another hint with the switches, you might want to take out any
switches nearby, take a good look inside the cavity and see if there
is an extra wire not connected.

Possible a home handyman replaced a broken double switch with a single
(that they had on hand) and didn't put that wire on as they were
"going to get around to it later" and never did ?

May also be switched on with a second light, and the wire came loose
on the back of the switch or something too ? Finally check for mains
voltage on the wires on the back of the socket (turn on all light
switches first). Its not impossible that the socket itself is somehow
faulty.

It is hard to imagine an electrician leaving a light unconnected.

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