Opinions wanted on career-limiting moves (<g>)
in [Embedded]
|
From: Tim Wescott on 14 Apr 2010 13:43 larwe wrote: > LTNS all. > > After a long absence, I'm interested in hearing opinions - public or > private - about how people here would perceive a career move that I'm > contemplating. > > I'm a senior-level engineer at BigCorp - technically I work in a > firmware group, but I've been lucky enough to keep a generic design > engineer title and of course as an embedded guy I am responsible for > investigating, debugging and suggesting design ideas/changes in the > hardware as well as the software. > > Right now I have a one-time opportunity to transfer into Marketing as > a kind of liaison officer - this is likely the best internal > opportunity I'll have for several years (Engineering at BigCorp is > very static). My actual title would probably be something like > "product line manager" but the principal duties would be evaluating > engineering's responses to proposals, sanity-checking timelines, > developing specifications for hardware and software, as well as grunt- > level marketing tasks (forecasting, presentations, etc). Basically a > big part of why they want an engineering skillset in Marketing is so > they have someone in-house to keep Engineering honest, and to provide > some detailed design suggestions when Engineering gets into "we can't > get there from here" mode. > > Obviously I have my own opinions, but what does cae think about how > this kind of title change would affect my hireability into engineering > positions in future? The reasons I'm interested in it are partly > because the career escalator moves faster in Marketing, and partly > because I think that the department change will give me a chance to > explore new challenges and basically exercise my brain more than I'm > doing right now. (The industry in which I work in extremely > conservative - engineering doesn't get to push any real design > boundaries or do much that's "new"). Basically I'm grabbing at a > passing helicopter to gain some altitude in order to evaluate and > select a better mountain from those around me... > > I fully intend to remain active as an engineer in the embedded field > by continuing to write books and articles, and do consulting work, as > well as my own personal projects - this will be helped by the fact > that I'll soon[ish] be finished with school and hence will have a lot > more free time. > > I'd particularly like to hear from people who work at BigCorps, since > realistically that's where I'm most likely to find future employment - > SmallCorps tend to be very suspicious of BigCorp hires, in my > experience. > > All thoughts are welcome, including those of the "you fool, wash your > mind out with MEK and get back down in the engine room" variety. IMHO, things like the small corp vs. big corp thing depends on how you spin yourself at the interview. Want to work for a small company? Put an "objectives" line on your resume that puts a diplomatic spin on "I'd like to be able to apply myself and actually get results for once!". Then follow that up in the interview -- talk about how you look forward to being a self-starter, with the ability to apply yourself and see results without getting wound up in red tape. Yes, there's a barrier, but I don't think it's insurmountable. I've worked at BigCorp, and at TeenyCorp -- TeenyCorp only has ten engineers working for it, you may have less authority running engineering there than you do as an engineering pion at a BigCorp that lets you push drafters and technicians around. What do you want to do with your career? The marketing gig may be the perfect thing if you want to move into engineering management when you get done with the Marketing thing -- a CEO who came through Marketing is going to trust you a lot more for an engineering VP than some guy whose whole experience base has been pushing bits and electrons around. The Marketing gig will prove (or disprove) that you can work with other disciplines (no matter how ironic you may find the use of "marketing" and "discipline" in the same sentence). OTOH, it could be a barrier to "real" design work later -- keeping up the consulting and book-writing will help you there. And here again, clever resume writing (and HR-bypassing) will help when the time comes to get back into engineering. So if you're shooting for "more of the same but bigger" then it's probably a neutral or a bad move. If you're aiming at the top of the mountain, then it's probably good. -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com
From: larwe on 14 Apr 2010 14:30 On Apr 14, 1:43 pm, Tim Wescott <t...(a)seemywebsite.now> wrote: > IMHO, things like the small corp vs. big corp thing depends on how you > spin yourself at the interview. Want to work for a small company? Put Very true - my comment was really reflecting the fact that I went on a few practice interviews over the years, to keep my interview skills current if nothing else, and I've found an *intense* hostility at Tinycorps (especially startups) towards Bigcorp people. Odd, really, since many of the people in question made their seed money working at Bigcorps, but still, there you have it. I also have the impression that many Tinycorps actively hate my present employer :) After that experience I decided to maintain two completely different versions of my resume; one version for Bigcorp eyes that talks about ISO, CMMI, six sigma, million-unit production and managing projects across three continents, and another version for Tinycorpers that talks exclusively about actual stuff I've written and built. > What do you want to do with your career? The marketing gig may be the > perfect thing if you want to move into engineering management when you I really can't believe the world needs another middle manager of any flavor. See, the real issue here is that I'm between a rock and a hard place; staying still for too long is resume poison (5 years was my deadline, and I'm coming up to 6 - yes the market is bad, but that's really no excuse). But making an upwards move in the wrong direction isn't necessarily better, as this thread illustrates. On the other hand, there simply isn't room for an upwards engineering move where I am now - we're already very top-heavy (plus, unwilling to hire entry-level people to fill any vacuum at the bottom). So my choices are: a) look for a lateral or diagonal-up move to an engineering position elsewhere (actively doing this, but it's slow going; the zone I'm targeting is on the other side of the continent, competition is stiffer out there, and I don't have contacts). Plus side: interesting work and relocation to an area with far greater engineering job density. Minus side: extremely difficult to make it happen. b) take this lateral move into a track that historically promotes energetic people [which I am] very quickly, but which diverges from my core experience. Plus side: I'll immediately be pulled out of my comfort zone into an environment where I'll be learning new things and improving skills, no more same-old same-old. Also, BigCorp would finance an MBA for me in that department. Minus side: If I'm not rapidly and immensely successful, I will be dumped like yesterday's garbage and might be unemployable at that point :) c) jog in place for another year and see if things improve. Plus side: safe. Minus side: Boring, plus politically hard now that I've had to disclose to management that I'm willing to accept this offer. d) give up and live off the land. > OTOH, it could be a barrier to "real" design work later -- keeping up > the consulting and book-writing will help you there. And here again, > clever resume writing (and HR-bypassing) will help when the time comes HR bypassing is definitely an important trick. I haven't penetrated the secret there. To date through my entire life, with *one* exception (my first job), I've gotten all my employment leads and the best interviews through principals or recruiters calling me, not me actively seeking opportunities. I guess step one for me when I'm looking for a new job should be "Have a lucky day". Good stuff to think about in this response; thanks.
From: whygee on 14 Apr 2010 14:42 larwe wrote: > The truth, without any agenda > (besides "not wanting to be bored") is that I have a lot of skills > that are not being used at all where I am - I estimated recently to > senior management that I'm putting out about 20% of what I could be > doing, not to mention that I'm never called upon to operate outside my > comfort zone. Those issues can't be fixed in the context of BigCorp's > engineering department. I feel so comfortable with my independence that I forgot that drawback of working with such employers. :-) > The reason for my thread posting is that I wanted a feel for how > poisonous (if at all) other engineers think this will be on my resume. My opinion is not that it woud be poisonous, if you show that you keep at least 50% of your time doing "engineering". I'm a bit optimistic, sure, I spend less than 5% of my actual time with a soldering iron. But don't lose the "down to earth" basics. For the rest, do whatever you can, it's much better than staying screwed to your seat. Not everybody is capable of staying on his bench for life. yg -- http://ygdes.com / http://yasep.org
From: larwe on 14 Apr 2010 15:39 On Apr 14, 3:37 pm, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: > >I don't think I'd even get to the "house payment" thought - I'd be too > >busy looking for rope and a sturdy tree limb... > > And an old tire to make a swing, right? Not quite what I had in mind.
From: -jg on 15 Apr 2010 01:30
On Apr 15, 12:13 am, larwe <zwsdot...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > All thoughts are welcome, including those of the "you fool, wash your > mind out with MEK and get back down in the engine room" variety. Sounds good to me, I'd just reality check the offer and make sure it's not a hospital pass ;) ie have you dealt with this department from the other side of the fence already ? If not, find someone who used to work there. What are the intra department politics like - marketing can pay better, but can also be full of over-inflated egos, so you need a higher tolerance level.... -jg |