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From: larwe on 14 Apr 2010 08:13
LTNS all.

After a long absence, I'm interested in hearing opinions - public or
private - about how people here would perceive a career move that I'm
contemplating.

I'm a senior-level engineer at BigCorp - technically I work in a
firmware group, but I've been lucky enough to keep a generic design
engineer title and of course as an embedded guy I am responsible for
investigating, debugging and suggesting design ideas/changes in the
hardware as well as the software.

Right now I have a one-time opportunity to transfer into Marketing as
a kind of liaison officer - this is likely the best internal
opportunity I'll have for several years (Engineering at BigCorp is
very static). My actual title would probably be something like
"product line manager" but the principal duties would be evaluating
engineering's responses to proposals, sanity-checking timelines,
developing specifications for hardware and software, as well as grunt-
level marketing tasks (forecasting, presentations, etc). Basically a
big part of why they want an engineering skillset in Marketing is so
they have someone in-house to keep Engineering honest, and to provide
some detailed design suggestions when Engineering gets into "we can't
get there from here" mode.

Obviously I have my own opinions, but what does cae think about how
this kind of title change would affect my hireability into engineering
positions in future? The reasons I'm interested in it are partly
because the career escalator moves faster in Marketing, and partly
because I think that the department change will give me a chance to
explore new challenges and basically exercise my brain more than I'm
doing right now. (The industry in which I work in extremely
conservative - engineering doesn't get to push any real design
boundaries or do much that's "new"). Basically I'm grabbing at a
passing helicopter to gain some altitude in order to evaluate and
select a better mountain from those around me...

I fully intend to remain active as an engineer in the embedded field
by continuing to write books and articles, and do consulting work, as
well as my own personal projects - this will be helped by the fact
that I'll soon[ish] be finished with school and hence will have a lot
more free time.

I'd particularly like to hear from people who work at BigCorps, since
realistically that's where I'm most likely to find future employment -
SmallCorps tend to be very suspicious of BigCorp hires, in my
experience.

All thoughts are welcome, including those of the "you fool, wash your
mind out with MEK and get back down in the engine room" variety.
From: Rich Webb on 14 Apr 2010 09:25
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 05:13:15 -0700 (PDT), larwe <zwsdotcom(a)gmail.com>
wrote:

>LTNS all.
>
>After a long absence, I'm interested in hearing opinions - public or
>private - about how people here would perceive a career move that I'm
>contemplating.

[snippety snip]

IMHO, once one is making enough for the necessities and an occasional
toy (A new devkit!) then the only thing that really counts is whether
one can look forward to starting the day and enjoy doing "fun stuff" for
each individual definition of fun.

That said, back before I was able to escape resume' reviews and hiring
decisions, an anonymous somebody coming out of Marketing *as such*
probably wouldn't have made the cut for a first interview into an
engineering position. OTOH, an "Product Line Manager" (or (better?) a
"Product Line Engineering Manager") probably would make the cut for an
appropriate senior level position.

It's all in how you spin it... and hey, that's Marketing's specialty,
isn't it? '-)

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
From: larwe on 14 Apr 2010 09:39
On Apr 14, 9:25 am, Rich Webb <bbew...(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

> toy (A new devkit!) then the only thing that really counts is whether
> one can look forward to starting the day and enjoy doing "fun stuff" for

Yeeeessss... Well, therein lies a long (and decidedly non-public)
conversation.

> engineering position. OTOH, an "Product Line Manager" (or (better?) a
> "Product Line Engineering Manager") probably would make the cut for an
> appropriate senior level position.

I'm really not sure that I'd be looking for what would normally be
called a "senior level" position. Actually I have an ideal destination
in mind, but the path towards it seems to have kinked a bit.

> It's all in how you spin it... and hey, that's Marketing's specialty,
> isn't it?  '-)

Heh. Yes, I can bullshit with the best of them, and with a straight
face to boot.

That product's housing isn't "beige and butt-ugly no matter where you
stick it", it's "neutrally colored and rugged, for unobtrusive
installation in a wide variety of environments"!

Don't say "the user has to call tech support every time they want to
use this feature", say "Our training and realtime support resources
are available to help your front-line staff climb the learning curve".
From: Mark Borgerson on 14 Apr 2010 10:20
In article <a0b09606-f81a-4d4a-8efb-afacd52b5ef9
@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>, zwsdotcom(a)gmail.com says...
> LTNS all.
>
> After a long absence, I'm interested in hearing opinions - public or
> private - about how people here would perceive a career move that I'm
> contemplating.
>
> I'm a senior-level engineer at BigCorp - technically I work in a
> firmware group, but I've been lucky enough to keep a generic design
> engineer title and of course as an embedded guy I am responsible for
> investigating, debugging and suggesting design ideas/changes in the
> hardware as well as the software.
>
> Right now I have a one-time opportunity to transfer into Marketing as
> a kind of liaison officer - this is likely the best internal
> opportunity I'll have for several years (Engineering at BigCorp is
> very static). My actual title would probably be something like
> "product line manager" but the principal duties would be evaluating
> engineering's responses to proposals, sanity-checking timelines,
> developing specifications for hardware and software, as well as grunt-
> level marketing tasks (forecasting, presentations, etc). Basically a
> big part of why they want an engineering skillset in Marketing is so
> they have someone in-house to keep Engineering honest, and to provide
> some detailed design suggestions when Engineering gets into "we can't
> get there from here" mode.

I don't think I would want that position unless it came with the
authority to say: "Engineering can't get a good working prototype
of that project ready for the July XYZ Dog and Pony Show. It will
have to debut at a later show."

Will you be able to use your engineering skills to keep Marketing
honest? Perhaps amongst the dinosaurs, BigCorp is a brontosaurus
and not a velociraptor.
>
> Obviously I have my own opinions, but what does cae think about how
> this kind of title change would affect my hireability into engineering
> positions in future? The reasons I'm interested in it are partly
> because the career escalator moves faster in Marketing, and partly
> because I think that the department change will give me a chance to
> explore new challenges and basically exercise my brain more than I'm
> doing right now. (The industry in which I work in extremely
> conservative - engineering doesn't get to push any real design
> boundaries or do much that's "new"). Basically I'm grabbing at a
> passing helicopter to gain some altitude in order to evaluate and
> select a better mountain from those around me...
>
IMHO, the escalator moves much more quickly in small companies----but
it usually doesn't go as high and is subject to frequent breakdown.
I got off that escalator at age 50 at a mezzanine with a nice view
and have been happy and occasionally well-paid for the last decade.
> I fully intend to remain active as an engineer in the embedded field
> by continuing to write books and articles, and do consulting work, as
> well as my own personal projects - this will be helped by the fact
> that I'll soon[ish] be finished with school and hence will have a lot
> more free time.

There's no such thing as free time while you are still working. There
are only opportunity costs! Free time is what you get after you retire!
>
> I'd particularly like to hear from people who work at BigCorps, since
> realistically that's where I'm most likely to find future employment -
> SmallCorps tend to be very suspicious of BigCorp hires, in my
> experience.
>
You could end up like a former HP engineer that I met recently. After
many years with that BigCorp, he ended up as a research assistant at
the local university. I suspect a pay cut ensued, but he's working
for a professor that gets grants for 5-year research projects, and
that's got to be a big plus.
> All thoughts are welcome, including those of the "you fool, wash your
> mind out with MEK and get back down in the engine room" variety.
>
There must be something I could say about the dark side---but it's
too early in the morning for my Darth Vader voice.


Mark Borgerson

From: whygee on 14 Apr 2010 09:56
hi,

larwe wrote:
> All thoughts are welcome, including those of the "you fool, wash your
> mind out with MEK and get back down in the engine room" variety.

well, just try.
if it fails, you can get back to HW-only work, right ?
if it succeeds, you'll have something else on your resume.

yg
--
http://ygdes.com / http://yasep.org
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