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From: M on 13 Nov 2009 05:36
moonraker wrote:

>
> Hi Richard, thanks for getting back!!! yes, it is very dusty inside, it
> belongs to my daughter.
>
> I was going to take the HDD out of the PC and slave it in another to pull
> some of the data off - and maybe if it is quite happy in its new home -
> leave it there.
>
> What do you think???
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>

I think you should clean out the dust, especially the dust covering the
processor. Take the processor's fan off carefully and make sure all the
dust that is under the fan is removed. DON'T use a vacuum cleaner.

M
From: moonraker on 13 Nov 2009 22:02

"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:hdifif$q7d$1(a)aioe.org...
> moonraker wrote:
>> Hi there, As a very lovely Polish young lady at work used to put it
>> "Canna you 'elp me!!!"
>>
>> Symptoms
>>
>> Press start button
>>
>> Screen appears - American megatrends - Amibios � 2001
>>
>> AV41P005 P4X333-8235 Intel ( r ) Celeron ( r ) CPU. 2.4o GHz
>>
>> Checking NVram. Update OK
>>
>> 394944 kb OK - this counting usually freezes, at various random
>> values - unless I choose to skip memory test or enter Setup.
>>
>> If I hit escape to skip memory test - it runs on through a couple of
>> screens listing various drives etc then to a black screen with a white
>> bar runs across the bottom. It then loads the windows XP logo screen and
>> the bar in the middle shows the loading process. This loading often
>> freezes and will not continue.
>> When it does complete loading the User log on screen appears, so I enter
>> the password and hit enter and it usually just sits there "saying"
>> loading you personal setting and goes no further. If I wait too long to
>> enter the user I.D the keyboard will not work.
>> On one occasion it did load the desk top but I could not do any thing
>> with it.
>>
>> Am now trying to run a memtest.
>>
>> Since your computer won't boot, get this:
>> http://www.memtest.org/#downiso
>>
>> Hi there, OK I have create a floppy with memtest 2.1 as the 4.0 would not
>> load.
>> Stuck it in the A:drive and fired up
>> Have to skip NVRAM memory test
>> PC runs and the screen shows values streaming down the left hand side:-
>>
>> AX:0200
>> BX:0000
>> CX:0006
>> DX:0000
>> EX:1004
>>
>> Runs for 30 seconds or a minute, and I can see the numbers changing on
>> the screen, like they are scrolling up.
>>
>> Then they stop changing, pretty sure that the PC has hung up, although
>> there is a curser flashing on the right of the bottom line, which just
>> happens to be ...DX000
>>
>> What do you think.
>>
>
> How many sticks of RAM does the computer have ?
>
> If you have more than one stick of RAM, then test the RAM one stick at a
> time.
>
> Always:
>
> 1) Turn off all power, before adding or removing RAM sticks.
> 2) Store the RAM sticks in an antistatic bag, between uses of them.
> 3) Bring yourself to the same electrical potential as the chassis of
> the computer, before inserting the RAM. The easiest way to do this,
> is with a wrist strap. This is used for control of staiic discharge,
> which is the enemy of RAM. The end with the clip, is clipped onto
> some shiny *grounded" metal on the computer chassis.
>
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2479151
>
> Keep track of where the RAM was originally installed, as the computer
> was quite happy with the RAM at one time.
>
> If a RAM stick has a "slight" problem, like a single stuck bit in high
> memory, then many processes in the computer will work without a problem.
> Memtest will behave more normally.
>
> If the memory is bad down in low memory, or if an entire chip is bad,
> then the computer may not be able to start. The BIOS needs good memory
> below the 1MB level, for the BIOS to be able to work. The memory test
> that the computer uses when it starts up, is not very thorough, and
> actually doesn't test all the memory properly. So even if there is a
> dead chip, the built-in test may pass (that happened on my Nforce2
> based machine).
>
> The reason for testing the sticks of RAM, one at a time, is the theory
> that only one stick is bad. If you place a perfectly good stick
> in there, then all tests should pass. If the second RAM stick
> fails (as it has in your current test results), you'd swap in a
> replacement.
>
> You can look here, for replacement sticks. The main advantage of
> these sites, is they have a database of computers, making it
> easier to find compatible memory.
>
> http://www.crucial.com
> http://www.kingston.com
>
> The P4X333-8235 would be using a VIA chipset. OK, this one is tricky,
> because it uses two different kinds of RAM. The blue slots use one
> kind of RAM. The black slots another. The keys are in different locations.
> You can only use one color of slots at a time, either use the black
> slots, or use the blue ones, but not both colors at the same time.
> On some motherboards designed to use two different kinds of RAM,
> there is a jumper to set the memory bus voltage (on your board, it
> is jumper JP1, located between the two sets of RAM slots). You would only
> need to consider whether one of those jumpers exist, if you're changing
> RAM types. I.e. If you're using the blue slots currently, and
> continue using the blue slots, then you have nothing to worry
> about.
>
> http://www.firingsquad.com/products/product_images/hw/LARGE_shuttle_av41p.jpg
>
> With such a motherboard, it would really help to have a manual for it.
>
> http://download.shuttle.eu/Archive/Manuals/en/av41p_n/av41pen.zip
>
> ( http://download.shuttle.eu/Archive/ )
>
> The two slots nearest the processor, take 184 pin DDR RAM.
> The other two slots take 168 pin SDRAM (older stuff). So
> if you're shopping for a replacement, make sure you're looking
> for the right stuff.
>
> Paul

Hi there, thanks to all of you for replying, I have a question

Hi can't get memtest to run from boot again, the only thing I can do with
the PC is boot into safe mode (F8 and then Esc to skip memory check), from
there I choose ADMIN and can boot into safe mode or safe mode + command
prompt.
I have on the floppy - Memtest86+ V2.10 (15/11/2008) - Download -
Pre-Compiled package for Floppy (DOS - Win) AS THE Memtest86+ V4.00
(22/09/2009) would not load on the floppy.

Do you know the command to type in so I can start memtest from command
prompt.

And another, I can now run the PC in safe mode I have be looking around and
the PC run for hours in safe mode without crashing, I haven't actually run
anything yet, but it just deosn't hang all the time.

I have tried running disc cleanup and defrag but the PC hangs pretty quick
(after analyise - hangs at 1% on defrag), I have run DxDiagnostic tool and
save it into My Docs, so the machine is actually alive!!

As well as starting memtest in dos, is there anything really useful that I
can do on the PC whilst in safe mode to make it healthier, i.e read of any
info from windows error reporting so you can see it yourselves. Or maybe
disable some of the items in the start-up menu, or anything you can suggest
to start to revive the pc, as I would like to work on it to bring it back to
tip-top performance if possible.

Many thanks

Many thanks

Steve


From: Paul on 13 Nov 2009 23:19
moonraker wrote:

>
> Hi there, thanks to all of you for replying, I have a question
>
> Hi can't get memtest to run from boot again, the only thing I can do with
> the PC is boot into safe mode (F8 and then Esc to skip memory check), from
> there I choose ADMIN and can boot into safe mode or safe mode + command
> prompt.
> I have on the floppy - Memtest86+ V2.10 (15/11/2008) - Download -
> Pre-Compiled package for Floppy (DOS - Win) AS THE Memtest86+ V4.00
> (22/09/2009) would not load on the floppy.
>
> Do you know the command to type in so I can start memtest from command
> prompt.
>
> And another, I can now run the PC in safe mode I have be looking around and
> the PC run for hours in safe mode without crashing, I haven't actually run
> anything yet, but it just deosn't hang all the time.
>
> I have tried running disc cleanup and defrag but the PC hangs pretty quick
> (after analyise - hangs at 1% on defrag), I have run DxDiagnostic tool and
> save it into My Docs, so the machine is actually alive!!
>
> As well as starting memtest in dos, is there anything really useful that I
> can do on the PC whilst in safe mode to make it healthier, i.e read of any
> info from windows error reporting so you can see it yourselves. Or maybe
> disable some of the items in the start-up menu, or anything you can suggest
> to start to revive the pc, as I would like to work on it to bring it back to
> tip-top performance if possible.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Many thanks
>
> Steve

I tested the "precompiled for floppy" version of memtest.org version 4, and it
works fine here.

You download a file like

http://www.memtest.org/download/4.00/memtest86+-4.00.floppy.zip

And unzipped that, to get.

dd.exe
install64.bat
install.bat
memtestp.bin
rawrite.exe
README.txt

Double-click "install.bat" while in Windows. It runs this command.

rawrite -f memtestp.bin

The program, in turn, takes the 64KB "memtestp.bin" file, and copies
it, sector by sector to the floppy. The floppy *should not* be readable
in Windows. It has no file system on it, so isn't visible. If you
try and list the contents, Windows will ask if you "want to format" it.

So when that installer is finished, you should have a floppy with no
file system, where the first 64KB in sectors of the floppy, are loaded
with the self booting code module. The floppy is bootable, but is
not list-able in Windows or DOS.

I had no problem booting that floppy. The program claims, on my system,
that 192KB of system RAM are reserved by my BIOS, meaning the rest of
the RAM can be tested.

*******

If you want another memory tester, try this one out. As far as I know,
this one is similar in design to the memtest.org one.

http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

*******

If you've managed to boot into Safe Mode, it is possible that you're using
some memory which is still OK and doesn't have errors. Operating systems
have stack and heap areas, one growing upwards from low memory, the other
growing downwards from the top of memory. It is possible for some RAM to
be broken on the computer, and for the computer to still run fine. But
when you get to wherever the bad memory is, an application can crash or exit.
Depending on where the memory error is, the symptoms can be pretty bizarre.

If a memory tester won't run, then I'd install a spare stick of RAM and
retest. If you believe the spare stick is good, and yet you can't get it to
work on the motherboard, there may be a problem with the motherboard.

In the picture here, there is a row of jumpers at the bottom of the picture.
I'd inspect them, to see if they're all consistent in appearance. Apparently
they're part of the RAM circuit. Their usage is discussed in the manual.

http://www.firingsquad.com/products/product_images/hw/LARGE_shuttle_av41p.jpg

Paul
From: moonraker on 14 Nov 2009 06:55

"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:hdlb4a$p2c$1(a)aioe.org...
> moonraker wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi there, thanks to all of you for replying, I have a question
>>
>> Hi can't get memtest to run from boot again, the only thing I can do with
>> the PC is boot into safe mode (F8 and then Esc to skip memory check),
>> from there I choose ADMIN and can boot into safe mode or safe mode +
>> command prompt.
>> I have on the floppy - Memtest86+ V2.10 (15/11/2008) - Download -
>> Pre-Compiled package for Floppy (DOS - Win) AS THE Memtest86+ V4.00
>> (22/09/2009) would not load on the floppy.
>>
>> Do you know the command to type in so I can start memtest from command
>> prompt.
>>
>> And another, I can now run the PC in safe mode I have be looking around
>> and the PC run for hours in safe mode without crashing, I haven't
>> actually run anything yet, but it just deosn't hang all the time.
>>
>> I have tried running disc cleanup and defrag but the PC hangs pretty
>> quick (after analyise - hangs at 1% on defrag), I have run DxDiagnostic
>> tool and save it into My Docs, so the machine is actually alive!!
>>
>> As well as starting memtest in dos, is there anything really useful that
>> I can do on the PC whilst in safe mode to make it healthier, i.e read of
>> any info from windows error reporting so you can see it yourselves. Or
>> maybe disable some of the items in the start-up menu, or anything you can
>> suggest to start to revive the pc, as I would like to work on it to bring
>> it back to tip-top performance if possible.
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Steve
>
> I tested the "precompiled for floppy" version of memtest.org version 4,
> and it
> works fine here.
>
> You download a file like
>
> http://www.memtest.org/download/4.00/memtest86+-4.00.floppy.zip
>
> And unzipped that, to get.
>
> dd.exe
> install64.bat
> install.bat
> memtestp.bin
> rawrite.exe
> README.txt
>
> Double-click "install.bat" while in Windows. It runs this command.
>
> rawrite -f memtestp.bin
>
> The program, in turn, takes the 64KB "memtestp.bin" file, and copies
> it, sector by sector to the floppy. The floppy *should not* be readable
> in Windows. It has no file system on it, so isn't visible. If you
> try and list the contents, Windows will ask if you "want to format" it.
>
> So when that installer is finished, you should have a floppy with no
> file system, where the first 64KB in sectors of the floppy, are loaded
> with the self booting code module. The floppy is bootable, but is
> not list-able in Windows or DOS.
>
> I had no problem booting that floppy. The program claims, on my system,
> that 192KB of system RAM are reserved by my BIOS, meaning the rest of
> the RAM can be tested.
>
> *******
>
> If you want another memory tester, try this one out. As far as I know,
> this one is similar in design to the memtest.org one.
>
> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
>
> *******
>
> If you've managed to boot into Safe Mode, it is possible that you're using
> some memory which is still OK and doesn't have errors. Operating systems
> have stack and heap areas, one growing upwards from low memory, the other
> growing downwards from the top of memory. It is possible for some RAM to
> be broken on the computer, and for the computer to still run fine. But
> when you get to wherever the bad memory is, an application can crash or
> exit.
> Depending on where the memory error is, the symptoms can be pretty
> bizarre.
>
> If a memory tester won't run, then I'd install a spare stick of RAM and
> retest. If you believe the spare stick is good, and yet you can't get it
> to
> work on the motherboard, there may be a problem with the motherboard.
>
> In the picture here, there is a row of jumpers at the bottom of the
> picture.
> I'd inspect them, to see if they're all consistent in appearance.
> Apparently
> they're part of the RAM circuit. Their usage is discussed in the manual.
>
> http://www.firingsquad.com/products/product_images/hw/LARGE_shuttle_av41p.jpg
>
> Paul


Thank you for that, like I always say to the Bear and all the other "old
boys" (and girls), who have bee helping me for years - you are all
amazing!!!!!

Question...I will do all that you an the others have suggested, one by one
in a logical order.....but first....can I ask again, is there any work or
changes that I can do in safe mode before I start pulling the PC to pieces.

Another, as well as maybe the memory being faulty, could the symptoms I
have - i.e, not booting normally, but booting into safe mode.. but crashing
as soon as I try - system restore (gets part way through and them freezes,
on restart says that it is not possible to restore to that point any more),
cleanup or defrag.....could these symptoms also point to the hard-drive
being faulty - damaged?

Many thanks

Steve


From: Paul on 14 Nov 2009 16:31
moonraker wrote:

>
>
> Thank you for that, like I always say to the Bear and all the other "old
> boys" (and girls), who have bee helping me for years - you are all
> amazing!!!!!
>
> Question...I will do all that you an the others have suggested, one by one
> in a logical order.....but first....can I ask again, is there any work or
> changes that I can do in safe mode before I start pulling the PC to pieces.
>
> Another, as well as maybe the memory being faulty, could the symptoms I
> have - i.e, not booting normally, but booting into safe mode.. but crashing
> as soon as I try - system restore (gets part way through and them freezes,
> on restart says that it is not possible to restore to that point any more),
> cleanup or defrag.....could these symptoms also point to the hard-drive
> being faulty - damaged?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Steve
>

For all that I know, your problems could be entirely software
related. But the thing is, any computer, no matter what OS
it is running, should be able to pass a RAM test. An OS
will not run well, if the RAM is flaky, and all sorts of
damage can be done to the file system, registry and the like,
if the problem with the RAM is not corrected.

So my approach, is to verify that the basic features of the
computer work first. And then, work from there. That means,
I use memtest86+ to test memory, if possible, use Prime95
(mersenne.org) stress test, to check CPU and memory. Use
a disk diagnostic from the disk manufacturer, and so on.
By doing so, I hope to prove the basic hardware is healthy.

Then, fixing the software comes after that.

It is a bit like my doctor's office, where they keep measuring
my blood pressure, even when I don't want them to :-) They
cover the basics, as part of their surveillance procedures.

Paul
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