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From: Poster Matt on 23 Feb 2010 10:59
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> Poster Matt wrote:
>> TVeblen wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2010 9:10 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> Poster Matt wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I received a lot of help 2 years ago in this group concerning a PC
>>>>> build. Now I've a major problem with the PC and would really
>>>>> appreciate some advise.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I turn my PC on it won't boot - the PC won't even get as far in
>>>>> the powering-up / boot process for anything to be displayed on my
>>>>> monitor, so not even as far as being able to go into the BIOS setup.
>>>>> In fact the monitor does not even detect a signal from the PC, saying
>>>>> on screen 'No signal detected'. Pressing the PC's power button to turn
>>>>> it off and then on again results in the same thing happening - no
>>>>> boot, even if repeated as many as 10 times or more.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a while I could get around this by turning the PC off at the
>>>>> mains, leaving it off for a few minutes and then turning it on again,
>>>>> after which pressing the PC's power on button always resulted in the
>>>>> PC booting successfully. Now even that is not working - though I can
>>>>> get it to boot by repeatedly trying the mains off, wait, try to boot
>>>>> process. After a few attempts it works.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once a boot is successful the PC performs perfectly. Reboots using
>>>>> Windows's 'restart' always work with no problems at all. However I now
>>>>> don't turn the PC off at all unless going away for more than one
>>>>> night.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly I have a major problem and one that I've left too long to
>>>>> resolve, having simply not had the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> My reason for posting is that I do not have a clue how to resolve the
>>>>> problem, not knowing even where to start diagnosis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you guys advise me on the steps I need to take to diagnose the
>>>>> fault please?
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the details about the build PC:
>>>>>
>>>>> Feb 2008 Build:
>>>>>
>>>>> Asus P5KC Motherboard
>>>>> Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Dual Core CPU
>>>>> 2GB Corsair Dominator 1066MHz DDR2 Dual Channel Memory (2 x 1GB)
>>>>> Zalman CNPS9700-LED Super Aero Flower CPU Cooler
>>>>> Sapphire Radeon HD2600PRO 512MB DDR2 PCI-Express
>>>>> Compro Videomate T220 - Digital Tuner / PCI Interface
>>>>> 500GB Samsung SpinPoint F1 3.5" SATA Hard Disk Drive x 2
>>>>> Antec P180 - Advanced Super Midi Tower
>>>>> Akasa 80mm Ultra Quiet & Akasa 120mm Ultra Quiet (Fans)
>>>>> 520W Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply
>>>>> Floppy Disk Drive - Generic Brand
>>>>> Samsung SH-S203 SATA Dual Layer DVD Writer
>>>>> Samsung SATA 16x DVD-ROM Drive
>>>>> Windows XP SP2.
>>>>>
>>>>> July 2008 added:
>>>>> Samsung HD103UJ 1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive
>>>>> SATA II 2 Port Controller Card - PCI Express
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) The problems described have been going on for the last 3-4 months
>>>>> and so did not occur immediately after installing the 1TB HDD and SATA
>>>>> controller card added in July 2008.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) One of the fans may not be working properly, it screeches loudly
>>>>> for a short while sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks for any advice. Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>> From your post I would suspect a bad Power Supply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Rene
>>>
>>> I agree with Rene, but it could also be something as simple as the
>>> case switch. (You did not mention whether you get any activity:
>>> lights, fans, etc.) But assuming you are getting nothing at all, you
>>> should eliminate the switch as a possibility before replacing the PS.
>>> You can test the switch at the motherboard where the "Power SW"
>>> header connects. Simply short the 2 pins with a screwdriver to see if
>>> it boots normally that way. If it does then your case switch is bad.
>>> Don't kill your rig with static - use proper precautions, etc etc.
>>
>> Sorry I tried to be as detailed as possible but forgot to mention
>> that, yes, I do get power, lights on the case, fan noise, HDD activity
>> light too, even when there is no boot.
>>
>> I don't understand why you think the problem is the power supply. Why
>> will it boot eventually after the switch off at the mains, wait, power
>> up, repeat as necessary process? And once booted, work perfectly for
>> weeks on end with no problem?
>>
>> I'm not doubting your diagnosis just not understanding it.
>>
>> Also could it be that my "520W Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply"
>> does not have enough wattage?
>>
>> Thanks guys.
>
> Switching off at the mains resets the power supply failsafes and allows
> the powersupply to restart, Also doing a restart from windows allows
> the PS to use stored power from its capacitors to help overcome the
> higher current requirements of drive spin up.
> once everything is running the power demand is much lower.
> I do sparetime repairs on computers for friends and family and have just
> lately run into 2 sytems with exactly your problem. BTW fans and lights
> will all run at much lower voltages than the whole system and makes
> things confusing.
> Your PS is probably sufficient in size when working properly.
>
> Regards, Rene

Many thanks Rene for taking the time to explain the problem. I think I'll bump
up the wattage of the new power supply in case of future upgrades. Should be
able to fix a new unit this weekend.

Any recommendations for what to get? My Corsair HX520W hasn't even lasted 2 years.

Thanks again guys.
From: Flasherly on 23 Feb 2010 11:10
On Feb 23, 10:31 am, Rene Lamontagne <rlam...(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Switching off at the mains resets the power supply failsafes and allows
> the powersupply to restart, Also doing a restart from windows allows
> the PS to use stored power from its capacitors to help overcome the
> higher current requirements of drive spin up.
> once everything is running the power demand is much lower.
> I do sparetime repairs on computers for friends and family and have just
> lately run into 2 sytems with exactly your problem. BTW fans and lights
> will all run at much lower voltages than the whole system and makes
> things confusing.
> Your PS is probably sufficient in size when working properly.
>
> Regards, Rene

Capacitors, mains, powersupply failsafe resets...too much credit to
PS. PSupplies are dumb as a nail, other than quality and a few for
adjusting rails, they should do one thing well and don't need much
intervention or verbiage. Basically got a pwr-good strobe to the MB --
ATX added some weirdness to the wall socket, another logic state that
may (on some builds) initially require fiddling a little with the pwr-
on switch or pwr cord.

Take it down to as basic as it'll go, single HD, MB/no more than what
it takes to run one, and VID. Also, try to boot w/out HD for the
usual b&w screen display line - "stick something in me to boot". Start
adding the rest of the stuff. Flakey add-on PCI controller BIOS
routine perhaps. One by one until the one associated w/ problems
occurs.

Got it any earlier, then start looking at the MB/mem/cpu/vid -- PS.
Try running w/out some stuff. *If and when* the PS is being pulled
down -- that tv tuner, the DVD drives & floppy. You can live with
them disconnected, try it awhile and see how things go.

Might have something going on with one or between the TV card, pci HD
controller, and bios hang. May be able to tweak the bios, may get fed
up and replace something with better hardware that less prone to
conflicts.

Then, again, you've stuffed it up right tight. May be the PS groaning
after all. Like I said, you can lighten up -- some of that stuff you
can run w/out temporarily. Runs great no issues on the light side,
then a 1200W PS may be in the crystal ball, after all.
From: Rene Lamontagne on 23 Feb 2010 11:49
Poster Matt wrote:
> Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> Poster Matt wrote:
>>> TVeblen wrote:
>>>> On 2/23/2010 9:10 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> Poster Matt wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I received a lot of help 2 years ago in this group concerning a PC
>>>>>> build. Now I've a major problem with the PC and would really
>>>>>> appreciate some advise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I turn my PC on it won't boot - the PC won't even get as far in
>>>>>> the powering-up / boot process for anything to be displayed on my
>>>>>> monitor, so not even as far as being able to go into the BIOS setup.
>>>>>> In fact the monitor does not even detect a signal from the PC, saying
>>>>>> on screen 'No signal detected'. Pressing the PC's power button to
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> it off and then on again results in the same thing happening - no
>>>>>> boot, even if repeated as many as 10 times or more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a while I could get around this by turning the PC off at the
>>>>>> mains, leaving it off for a few minutes and then turning it on again,
>>>>>> after which pressing the PC's power on button always resulted in the
>>>>>> PC booting successfully. Now even that is not working - though I can
>>>>>> get it to boot by repeatedly trying the mains off, wait, try to boot
>>>>>> process. After a few attempts it works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once a boot is successful the PC performs perfectly. Reboots using
>>>>>> Windows's 'restart' always work with no problems at all. However I
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> don't turn the PC off at all unless going away for more than one
>>>>>> night.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly I have a major problem and one that I've left too long to
>>>>>> resolve, having simply not had the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My reason for posting is that I do not have a clue how to resolve the
>>>>>> problem, not knowing even where to start diagnosis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you guys advise me on the steps I need to take to diagnose the
>>>>>> fault please?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the details about the build PC:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feb 2008 Build:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Asus P5KC Motherboard
>>>>>> Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Dual Core CPU
>>>>>> 2GB Corsair Dominator 1066MHz DDR2 Dual Channel Memory (2 x 1GB)
>>>>>> Zalman CNPS9700-LED Super Aero Flower CPU Cooler
>>>>>> Sapphire Radeon HD2600PRO 512MB DDR2 PCI-Express
>>>>>> Compro Videomate T220 - Digital Tuner / PCI Interface
>>>>>> 500GB Samsung SpinPoint F1 3.5" SATA Hard Disk Drive x 2
>>>>>> Antec P180 - Advanced Super Midi Tower
>>>>>> Akasa 80mm Ultra Quiet & Akasa 120mm Ultra Quiet (Fans)
>>>>>> 520W Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply
>>>>>> Floppy Disk Drive - Generic Brand
>>>>>> Samsung SH-S203 SATA Dual Layer DVD Writer
>>>>>> Samsung SATA 16x DVD-ROM Drive
>>>>>> Windows XP SP2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> July 2008 added:
>>>>>> Samsung HD103UJ 1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive
>>>>>> SATA II 2 Port Controller Card - PCI Express
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) The problems described have been going on for the last 3-4 months
>>>>>> and so did not occur immediately after installing the 1TB HDD and
>>>>>> SATA
>>>>>> controller card added in July 2008.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) One of the fans may not be working properly, it screeches loudly
>>>>>> for a short while sometimes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks for any advice. Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> .
>>>>> From your post I would suspect a bad Power Supply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, Rene
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Rene, but it could also be something as simple as the
>>>> case switch. (You did not mention whether you get any activity:
>>>> lights, fans, etc.) But assuming you are getting nothing at all, you
>>>> should eliminate the switch as a possibility before replacing the
>>>> PS. You can test the switch at the motherboard where the "Power SW"
>>>> header connects. Simply short the 2 pins with a screwdriver to see
>>>> if it boots normally that way. If it does then your case switch is bad.
>>>> Don't kill your rig with static - use proper precautions, etc etc.
>>>
>>> Sorry I tried to be as detailed as possible but forgot to mention
>>> that, yes, I do get power, lights on the case, fan noise, HDD
>>> activity light too, even when there is no boot.
>>>
>>> I don't understand why you think the problem is the power supply. Why
>>> will it boot eventually after the switch off at the mains, wait,
>>> power up, repeat as necessary process? And once booted, work
>>> perfectly for weeks on end with no problem?
>>>
>>> I'm not doubting your diagnosis just not understanding it.
>>>
>>> Also could it be that my "520W Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply"
>>> does not have enough wattage?
>>>
>>> Thanks guys.
>>
>> Switching off at the mains resets the power supply failsafes and
>> allows the powersupply to restart, Also doing a restart from windows
>> allows the PS to use stored power from its capacitors to help
>> overcome the higher current requirements of drive spin up.
>> once everything is running the power demand is much lower.
>> I do sparetime repairs on computers for friends and family and have
>> just lately run into 2 sytems with exactly your problem. BTW fans and
>> lights will all run at much lower voltages than the whole system and
>> makes things confusing.
>> Your PS is probably sufficient in size when working properly.
>>
>> Regards, Rene
>
> Many thanks Rene for taking the time to explain the problem. I think
> I'll bump up the wattage of the new power supply in case of future
> upgrades. Should be able to fix a new unit this weekend.
>
> Any recommendations for what to get? My Corsair HX520W hasn't even
> lasted 2 years.
>
> Thanks again guys.

Good idea to oversize for future addons, I have been replacing 450 to
500 Watt units with 600 or 650 watt, OCZ, Enermax and PCpowerand cooling
All seem OK, most of the well branded ones should be good Check Newegg
etc for reviews.

Regards, Rene

From: peter on 23 Feb 2010 12:24
Quote: One of the fans may not be working properly, it screeches loudly
>>> for a short while sometimes.
if that is the Fan on the CPU cooler I would check to see if its running on
startup.
It might be seizing up when cool and the BIOS sees no fan movement and stops the
startup.

Other than that I too feel you have reached your Power limit.
Which you can test by disconnecting a few peripherals

peter

--
If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
or disruptive,please ignore it.
If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :-)

"Poster Matt" <postermatt(a)no_spam_for_me.org> wrote in message
news:SgSgn.43670$Ym4.40374(a)text.news.virginmedia.com...
> TVeblen wrote:
>> On 2/23/2010 9:10 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> Poster Matt wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I received a lot of help 2 years ago in this group concerning a PC
>>>> build. Now I've a major problem with the PC and would really
>>>> appreciate some advise.
>>>>
>>>> When I turn my PC on it won't boot - the PC won't even get as far in
>>>> the powering-up / boot process for anything to be displayed on my
>>>> monitor, so not even as far as being able to go into the BIOS setup.
>>>> In fact the monitor does not even detect a signal from the PC, saying
>>>> on screen 'No signal detected'. Pressing the PC's power button to turn
>>>> it off and then on again results in the same thing happening - no
>>>> boot, even if repeated as many as 10 times or more.
>>>>
>>>> For a while I could get around this by turning the PC off at the
>>>> mains, leaving it off for a few minutes and then turning it on again,
>>>> after which pressing the PC's power on button always resulted in the
>>>> PC booting successfully. Now even that is not working - though I can
>>>> get it to boot by repeatedly trying the mains off, wait, try to boot
>>>> process. After a few attempts it works.
>>>>
>>>> Once a boot is successful the PC performs perfectly. Reboots using
>>>> Windows's 'restart' always work with no problems at all. However I now
>>>> don't turn the PC off at all unless going away for more than one night.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly I have a major problem and one that I've left too long to
>>>> resolve, having simply not had the time.
>>>>
>>>> My reason for posting is that I do not have a clue how to resolve the
>>>> problem, not knowing even where to start diagnosis.
>>>>
>>>> Can you guys advise me on the steps I need to take to diagnose the
>>>> fault please?
>>>>
>>>> Here are the details about the build PC:
>>>>
>>>> Feb 2008 Build:
>>>>
>>>> Asus P5KC Motherboard
>>>> Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Dual Core CPU
>>>> 2GB Corsair Dominator 1066MHz DDR2 Dual Channel Memory (2 x 1GB)
>>>> Zalman CNPS9700-LED Super Aero Flower CPU Cooler
>>>> Sapphire Radeon HD2600PRO 512MB DDR2 PCI-Express
>>>> Compro Videomate T220 - Digital Tuner / PCI Interface
>>>> 500GB Samsung SpinPoint F1 3.5" SATA Hard Disk Drive x 2
>>>> Antec P180 - Advanced Super Midi Tower
>>>> Akasa 80mm Ultra Quiet & Akasa 120mm Ultra Quiet (Fans)
>>>> 520W Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply
>>>> Floppy Disk Drive - Generic Brand
>>>> Samsung SH-S203 SATA Dual Layer DVD Writer
>>>> Samsung SATA 16x DVD-ROM Drive
>>>> Windows XP SP2.
>>>>
>>>> July 2008 added:
>>>> Samsung HD103UJ 1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive
>>>> SATA II 2 Port Controller Card - PCI Express
>>>>
>>>> Please note the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The problems described have been going on for the last 3-4 months
>>>> and so did not occur immediately after installing the 1TB HDD and SATA
>>>> controller card added in July 2008.
>>>>
>>>> 2) One of the fans may not be working properly, it screeches loudly
>>>> for a short while sometimes.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks for any advice. Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>> From your post I would suspect a bad Power Supply.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards, Rene
>>
>> I agree with Rene, but it could also be something as simple as the case
>> switch. (You did not mention whether you get any activity: lights, fans,
>> etc.) But assuming you are getting nothing at all, you should eliminate the
>> switch as a possibility before replacing the PS. You can test the switch at
>> the motherboard where the "Power SW" header connects. Simply short the 2 pins
>> with a screwdriver to see if it boots normally that way. If it does then your
>> case switch is bad.
>> Don't kill your rig with static - use proper precautions, etc etc.
>
> Sorry I tried to be as detailed as possible but forgot to mention that, yes, I
> do get power, lights on the case, fan noise, HDD activity light too, even when
> there is no boot.
>
> I don't understand why you think the problem is the power supply. Why will it
> boot eventually after the switch off at the mains, wait, power up, repeat as
> necessary process? And once booted, work perfectly for weeks on end with no
> problem?
>
> I'm not doubting your diagnosis just not understanding it.
>
> Also could it be that my "520W Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply" does not
> have enough wattage?
>
> Thanks guys.

From: TVeblen on 23 Feb 2010 12:37
On 2/23/2010 10:13 AM, Poster Matt wrote:
> TVeblen wrote:
>> On 2/23/2010 9:10 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> Poster Matt wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I received a lot of help 2 years ago in this group concerning a PC
>>>> build. Now I've a major problem with the PC and would really
>>>> appreciate some advise.
>>>>
>>>> When I turn my PC on it won't boot - the PC won't even get as far in
>>>> the powering-up / boot process for anything to be displayed on my
>>>> monitor, so not even as far as being able to go into the BIOS setup.
>>>> In fact the monitor does not even detect a signal from the PC, saying
>>>> on screen 'No signal detected'. Pressing the PC's power button to turn
>>>> it off and then on again results in the same thing happening - no
>>>> boot, even if repeated as many as 10 times or more.
>>>>
>>>> For a while I could get around this by turning the PC off at the
>>>> mains, leaving it off for a few minutes and then turning it on again,
>>>> after which pressing the PC's power on button always resulted in the
>>>> PC booting successfully. Now even that is not working - though I can
>>>> get it to boot by repeatedly trying the mains off, wait, try to boot
>>>> process. After a few attempts it works.
>>>>
>>>> Once a boot is successful the PC performs perfectly. Reboots using
>>>> Windows's 'restart' always work with no problems at all. However I now
>>>> don't turn the PC off at all unless going away for more than one night.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly I have a major problem and one that I've left too long to
>>>> resolve, having simply not had the time.
>>>>
>>>> My reason for posting is that I do not have a clue how to resolve the
>>>> problem, not knowing even where to start diagnosis.
>>>>
>>>> Can you guys advise me on the steps I need to take to diagnose the
>>>> fault please?
>>>>
>>>> Here are the details about the build PC:
>>>>
>>>> Feb 2008 Build:
>>>>
>>>> Asus P5KC Motherboard
>>>> Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Dual Core CPU
>>>> 2GB Corsair Dominator 1066MHz DDR2 Dual Channel Memory (2 x 1GB)
>>>> Zalman CNPS9700-LED Super Aero Flower CPU Cooler
>>>> Sapphire Radeon HD2600PRO 512MB DDR2 PCI-Express
>>>> Compro Videomate T220 - Digital Tuner / PCI Interface
>>>> 500GB Samsung SpinPoint F1 3.5" SATA Hard Disk Drive x 2
>>>> Antec P180 - Advanced Super Midi Tower
>>>> Akasa 80mm Ultra Quiet & Akasa 120mm Ultra Quiet (Fans)
>>>> 520W Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply
>>>> Floppy Disk Drive - Generic Brand
>>>> Samsung SH-S203 SATA Dual Layer DVD Writer
>>>> Samsung SATA 16x DVD-ROM Drive
>>>> Windows XP SP2.
>>>>
>>>> July 2008 added:
>>>> Samsung HD103UJ 1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive
>>>> SATA II 2 Port Controller Card - PCI Express
>>>>
>>>> Please note the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The problems described have been going on for the last 3-4 months
>>>> and so did not occur immediately after installing the 1TB HDD and SATA
>>>> controller card added in July 2008.
>>>>
>>>> 2) One of the fans may not be working properly, it screeches loudly
>>>> for a short while sometimes.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks for any advice. Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>> From your post I would suspect a bad Power Supply.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards, Rene
>>
>> I agree with Rene, but it could also be something as simple as the
>> case switch. (You did not mention whether you get any activity:
>> lights, fans, etc.) But assuming you are getting nothing at all, you
>> should eliminate the switch as a possibility before replacing the PS.
>> You can test the switch at the motherboard where the "Power SW" header
>> connects. Simply short the 2 pins with a screwdriver to see if it
>> boots normally that way. If it does then your case switch is bad.
>> Don't kill your rig with static - use proper precautions, etc etc.
>
> Sorry I tried to be as detailed as possible but forgot to mention that,
> yes, I do get power, lights on the case, fan noise, HDD activity light
> too, even when there is no boot.
>
<Snip>

Then that raises the possibility that the video card could be defective.
Can you get another card to try in your machine, or borrow one to put in
yours? That is not to say that Rene is wrong - the PS is a very likely
suspect, but you may want to do some of the "free" diagnostics before
you go buying new stuff. A system that will not post has got a major
hardware issue going on. What Flasherly says is correct. To diagnose a
problem like yours I would disassemble the entire rig , so there is just
a motherboard, processor, and power supply and try it. The board will
beep like mad (no memory code). Then add one stick of memory you should
now get the no video code. Then add the video card. At this point you
should get to the BIOS screen. If you don't then you know you have a
problem with one of those 5 components. If it works with the main 5 then
start adding components back one at a time until you find the one that
hoses the system.
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