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From: Stan Hoeppner on 31 Oct 2009 00:40
stephen2eq(a)yahoo.com put forth on 10/30/2009 10:15 PM:
> --- On Sat, 10/31/09, Stan Hoeppner <stan(a)hardwarefreak.com> wrote:
>> Maybe I missed something in a previous post. If you
>> don't have
>> ethernet, then how are you connecting to the dsl
>> modem? USB?
>
> Yes USB to ADSL modem to POTS. I think your suggestion of buying a router was still valid however, I found several recommendations to do this when I was Googling to find out how to get pon and poff working. However I was and am determined that I shouldn't need to buy any more hardware than Windows has needed, and I felt vindicated in this when I did get pon and poff working.

Your DSL modem connects to a DSLAM, not POTS. And regarding your
reference to POTS...

> With that I now have almost everything I want, so the case for buying more hardware is even weaker now than it was when I started out. I could even put 'pon' in the initrc file (or whatever it's called these days), or perhaps in users' .profiles, so that nobody would need to type it explicitly. However I would prefer to get the 'demand' feature working - since it is supposed to work, and it is cooler - and I also still like the idea of having a GUI dialog. Maybe it's because I have used Windows for too long and have developed Stockholm syndrome, but I like the way it lets me see, and approve, connection attempts.

You must have been a long time POTS modem dialup (or worse on top of
that, AOL) user given your goofy preference to see a dial on demand GUI
box. xDSL is an "always connected" technology. There is no reason to
ever "hang up". Thus, just configure the PPPoE client to stay
connected, or re-connect should the PPPoE session be dropped for any
reason. And have it do it all in the background. There's no need for
user interaction, none whatsoever.

Regarding a broadband router, it's not about "need", it's about
convenience and ease of use. It also adds a layer of security
protection due to NAT and SPI, especially if you've not configured
iptables on Linux to provide a packet firewall. And, configuring the
firewall features of a broadband router is a helluva lot simpler than
iptables. I don't use desktop Debian, so I don't know if there is a GUI
iptables configurator. If there is, you lucked out. If not, you'll be
spending some time on this list or in Google figuring it out.

There is one plus side to avoiding a broadband router. You'll learn a
bit more of Linux, though you'll burn copious amounts of time doing so. ;)

--
Stan


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From: Kevin Ross on 31 Oct 2009 01:00
If you want to have your connection be established on bootup, the "Debian
way" is to add your PPP connection to your /etc/network/interfaces file,
like:

auto ppp0
iface ppp0 inet ppp
provider dsl-provider

Then, in your ppp options, add the "persist" option, which will cause your
connection to automatically reconnect should the connection be lost. Remove
any "demand", "idle", or "holdoff" options.

For security, you'll want to add a firewall. I use shorewall myself, and
like it. The configuration is through text files, but it's leaps and bounds
easier than directly manipulating iptables.

That's how I had it setup before I switched to a DSL provider that used DHCP
instead of PPPoE. I have since switched again to FIOS, but no changes were
necessary, since they use DHCP as well.

I personally prefer using a Linux machine as the router, and using a
separate wireless access point for wi-fi. One reason is the flexibility
offered over the WAP/router combo units. Another is memory. Bittorrent
will cause many routers to run out of memory.

Hope this helps!
-- Kevin


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From: stephen2eq on 31 Oct 2009 08:20
H.S.:
> 3. Make a shortcut on everyone's desktop to call the pon command ("sudo
> pon dsl-provider").

Thanks for that suggestion H.S., yes I think my 'guests' could manage that. I have added my guest accounts to the 'dip' group so the shortcut wouldn't need to use 'sudo'. However, in light of other replies I think I am probably going to try to go with the 'always connected' option.

Stan Hoeppner:
> Your DSL modem connects to a DSLAM, not POTS.

(*quickly looks up what DSLAM stands for on Wikipedia*) I knew that :-)

> You must have been a long time POTS modem dialup (or worse on top of
> that, AOL) user given your goofy preference to see a dial on demand GUI
> box.  xDSL is an "always connected" technology.  There is no reason to
> ever "hang up".  Thus, just configure the PPPoE client to stay
> connected, or re-connect should the PPPoE session be dropped for any
> reason.  And have it do it all in the background.  There's no need for
> user interaction, none whatsoever.

Thanks for explaining that, which I wasn't 100% aware of. I thought maybe some ADSL providers charged by time connected the way they do with dial-up, although I knew mine didn't. I think maybe you have cured me of my Stockholm syndrome = GUI dialog neediness.

Actually I have been using ADSL a lot longer than I was on dial-up, and no I have never been an AOL customer. I long ago imbibed the Unix philosophy of 'do one thing and do it well' and I expect my ISP to follow that maxim too.

> Regarding a broadband router, it's not about "need", it's about
> convenience and ease of use.  It also adds a layer of security
> protection due to NAT and SPI, especially if you've not configured
> iptables on Linux to provide a packet firewall.  And, configuring the
> firewall features of a broadband router is a helluva lot simpler than
> iptables.

I don't understand much of this (yet) but it comes back to the fact that (I feel) I have had convenience and ease of use with Windows, and I already have (almost all of) the same level of convenience and ease of use in my Debian installation, with this hardware. In fact with your comments that I should be connected all the time, and Kevin's advice about how to configure that, I hope to reach an even greater level of ease of use with Debian.

Coming back to what you have written though, it sounds like I'm not really aware of what types of attack I might be vulnerable to with my current setup, running Linux. Since I imagine that could be quite a big topic please feel free to just provide a link rather than take up more of your time explaining stuff (but if you want to explain that would be great). On Windows I used a software firewall (ZoneAlarm), does this concept not transfer to Linux? I was kind of hoping it didn't simply because Unix's intrinsic security made firewalls unnecessary – wishful thinking?

(Aside: I tried to look up what SPI stands for, but Wikipedia lists at least 4 different things in the field of computer networking! Is it System Packet Interface, Security Parameter Index, Service Package Interpreter, Stateful Package Inspection?)

Kevin Ross:
> If you want to have your connection be established on bootup, the "Debian
> way" is to add your PPP connection to your /etc/network/interfaces file,
> like:

Thanks for that Kevin, I will definitely be trying this as my next line of attack (when I have more time to spend on it). I will post back to the group with the result.

> Then, in your ppp options, add the "persist" option, which will cause your
> connection to automatically reconnect should the connection be lost.  Remove
> any "demand", "idle", or "holdoff" options.

I already have the 'persist' option. It was mentioned in the instructions I found to get the DSL modem working in the first place with pon and poff.

> For security, you'll want to add a firewall.  I use shorewall myself, and
> like it.

Thanks, I will look this up.

> That's how I had it setup before I switched to a DSL provider that used DHCP
> instead of PPPoE.

My current ISP uses DHCP – does that change anything you've written?

> Hope this helps!

It definitely sounds like it will, thanks.





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From: Klistvud on 31 Oct 2009 19:38
Well, another, quite intuitive way of achieving what you want would be
to write a script to launch Iceweasel, and use that script instead of
the Iceweasel icon. In the script, you could type in all the commands
you currently type by hand, then type iceweasel on the next line, and
finally, type all the commands you currently use to disconnect. Then,
you would just make a nice desktop shortcut to the script, with a big
shiny icon, and you're all set and done. The script would execute pon,
launch iceweasel, and when you close iceweasel, it would execute poff.
Can't get much simpler than that. If you just LOVE to have a dialog
(and if you use Gnome), you could also intersperse the script with a
bunch of colorful zenity dialogs (man zenity).

Of course, all this is quite useless if your xADSL is not "pay-per-
minute"; if it's "pay-per-megabyte", then it's best to have it always
on -- that's even cooler than having cool dialogs!

--
Regards,

Klistvud
Certifiable Loonix User #481801


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From: Kevin Ross on 31 Oct 2009 19:39
> From: stephen2eq(a)yahoo.com [mailto:stephen2eq(a)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:16 AM
>
> My current ISP uses DHCP - does that change anything you've written?
>

Are you absolutely sure of that? ISP's mainly use two different methods of
assigning IP addresses to their customers. DHCP or PPPoE. If your ISP uses
PPPoE, then you need to use pppd with a PPPoE plugin. If they use DHCP,
then you don't use pppd at all. You just use a DHCP client on your
machiine. Using pppd won't work at all.

If there's any uncertainty on your part, maybe you could tell us what ISP
you're using, and in what geographic region.


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