PRODUCING HYDROGEN FROM SEA WATER
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From: Sam Wormley on 11 May 2010 08:41 On 5/10/10 9:28 PM, Marvin the Martian wrote: > The reason why we're addicted to oil is because the Saudis paid our > government to not consider any PRACTICAL solution that would work. ???
From: Marvin the Martian on 11 May 2010 22:59 On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:08:53 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote: > On May 11, 12:21 pm, Marvin the Martian <mar...(a)ontomars.org> wrote: >> Come back and talk when it cost $0.05 per kW-hour, unsubsidized and >> based on the cost of it's own energy production. - Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > There exist many solar panels on many roofs, and the owners are getting > fat returns. Government subsidies, and fat returns? Prove it. Just because someone took advantage of a tax credit doesn't mean they are getting 'fat returns'. < snip unsubstantiated claims >
From: Marvin the Martian on 11 May 2010 23:01 On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:05:52 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote: > On May 11, 12:28 pm, Marvin the Martian <mar...(a)ontomars.org> wrote: >> On Mon, 10 May 2010 17:52:34 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote: >> > Obviously the status-quoists will try their best to prevent the >> > hydrogen economy, but the world wants change. >> >> Oh, drop the ad hom. It looks bad on you. >> >> The reason why we're addicted to oil is because the Saudis paid our >> government to not consider any PRACTICAL solution that would work. >> Remember Abscam? It is not that our congressmen would betray the nation >> and sell us out that the FBI found remarkable; the FBI was surprised at >> how cheaply they would turn treason and sell us out to a foreign >> interest. >> >> There are many practical solutions that would work to solve our energy >> problems. Nuclear is one, and Methanol (not Ethanol) will also work. We >> can make methanol from our vast coal reserves, our vast natural gas >> reserves, and even our nation's biomass production. Any one of these >> sources we have in greater abundance than the Saudi's had oil. >> >> We could pay the automakers to make flex fuel methanol/gasoline cars >> with a fraction of the government's solar subsidy and in 10 years, the >> free market would provide more methanol gas stations than gas stations. >> >> > Too much pollution from the oil >> > economy has not just poisoned the world, but also human minds. >> >> Bullshit. We know now that the entire AGW scare was a big scam. Solar >> and wind are just distractions. > > I think there are certain theological factors, apart from of course the > standard racism-bigotry-snobbery issues, in the way the developed world > is trying to stop the hydrogen economy from taking off. The developing > countries stand to gain a lot, and the nastier sort in the Western world > don't like that. After all, they are Einsteinians who worship black > holes, and are thus far from the ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians > who worshipped the sun. > > Hmm, this clears things a lot! Oi all all-polluting all-gobbling > blackholewallahs, there is really no debate with your sort. Que sera > sera, whatever will be will be so far as I am concerned. Just that, > indications are that Indians will go in for solar power as it will > become a paying cottage industry. > > Cheers, > Arindam Banerjee. You're not even making sense.
From: spudnik on 11 May 2010 23:23 every technique has problems. like, you can't grow hemp-for haemorrhoids under a photovoltaic, without a good lightbulb. > Government subsidies, and fat returns? --Light: A History! http://wlym.TAKEtheGOOGOLout.com
From: Arindam Banerjee on 11 May 2010 23:24
On May 12, 12:59 pm, Marvin the Martian <mar...(a)ontomars.org> wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:08:53 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote: > > On May 11, 12:21 pm, Marvin the Martian <mar...(a)ontomars.org> wrote: > >> Come back and talk when it cost $0.05 per kW-hour, unsubsidized and > >> based on the cost of it's own energy production. - Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > There exist many solar panels on many roofs, and the owners are getting > > fat returns. > > Government subsidies, and fat returns? Prove it. Just because someone > took advantage of a tax credit doesn't mean they are getting 'fat > returns'. > > < snip unsubstantiated claims > The great advantage of solar panel is that the roof is already there, and the householder does the maintenance. He receives solar power, uses it, and sends the surplus back to the grid. Thus his electricity costs are reduced drastically. If he can minimise his use by night, he is on a winner. As it is, his electricity bills come down by $1000 a year. Which for an investment of $4500 is not bad at all. Now they say that this is the reduced price, but I doubt it. Prices can be padded up, and then brought down, all artificially. Bottom line is that today a meter of solar panel costs $100, and a 12 square meter system costs say $1500. Even double that, for profits. So that is $3000. This comes with an inverter to connect to the power supply. This is electronic stuff, but I don't think it should cost more than $2000 at the most. So we have what, $5000 with profit. Now, any dishonest person could mark it up to say $10000 and then say Govt is giving 50% rebate. Now, this $4500 figure is actually too high - it should come down easily to $2000 or so. With no talk of govt. subsidy. When we make solar farms, the main costs like in land, support for panels and most importantly their maintenance against weather. Storms, birds, do damage. All these problems are offset with solar panels on existing roofs. However, in manpower intensive regions such as India, where labour is cheap, the negative issues matter much less. So, solar farming is the most viable option in states such as Gujarat and Rajasthan. They are doing that, already. According to basic calculations, 20 square kilometer of solar panels will generate 20000 MW of electricity! Pure, clean, green electricity. It can be done. Instead of making huge coal fire plants, why not use deserts to make as much power as is required? Lot of people will get jobs on an enduring basis. New townships will happen. In the case of Gujarat, because it is near the sea, the seawater can be used for conversion to hydrogen and oxygen - and the with HTN, it can be transferred very quickly, losslessly and cheaply. With time, the HTN will co-exist with the electricity high voltage transmission lines. New townships will not need them at all. They will need just the hydrogen line, fuel cells, and local low voltage lines that will be a lot safer. http://adda-enterprises.com/htnwebsite/home.htm Cheers, Arindam Banerjee |