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From: James J. Gavan on 5 Feb 2010 23:29 Pete Dashwood wrote: > James J. Gavan wrote: > >>Alistair wrote: >>> >> >>Bit puzzled what is going on; was the original source 'freeformat', so >>that he is starting in Column 1. (N/E you specifically set a DIRECTIVE >>for free format). Although not shown in the code were you automatically 'free-formating' ? I haven't tried it - but I kind of think that either in Column 1 or Column 7 your asterisks should be accepted. (I'll give that a try sometime). > > Although Microsoft are much maligned, sometimes, when they get it right, the > results are simply outstanding. I agree with that; they have done an outstanding job with the Office suite. But here's the rub. I had MS Word, plus the others on my Win 98 machine and produced some block diagrams. If I recall I used this feature when writing to J4 about Collections, supporting my text with diagrams. Now I'm into Win XP and as part of the deal I bought MS Office Suite 2003. My block diagrams didn't work - pretty drawing was replaced by something called Hyperlink. (A feature BTW that has crept into some of the latest J4 write-ups). So now I started searching MS directly for Word. I found all sorts of amazing examples, with demos. But the whole thing finishes up. "Like what we've shown you. Well why not upgrade to MS 2007 ($$$$$$) ?". So that triggered my looking at Sun's OpenOffice.org 3.0. I had a quick dabble at it and reproduced the original block diagrams, with colouring as necessary, fairly quickly. The original 'getting into Word' for diagramming paid off when using OpenOffice - the macros (dropdown menus/keys/mouse/whatever) although perhaps given slightly different names, the features were easy to identify. Being a Sun product, if you are familiar with Java you can invoke OpenOffice.org from the latter - not surprising. I think for non-Java people you use Basic. I have only taken a cursory look to-date. Now if you can link to it with COBOL/OO COBOL - and thinking of the word 'Open' (means 'FREE' doesn't it ?) - why go with an excellent MS product, which although it adds new useful/more flexible features, also adds a new price ? As that Corsican said to his wife, "Not to-night Josephine". But get my DateAndTime done - I will take a look at the Excel demo. Jimmy, Calgary AB
From: Alistair on 6 Feb 2010 07:48 On Feb 6, 3:31 am, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...(a)shaw.ca> wrote: > Alistair wrote: > > > As an aside, I really am beginning to hate M/F documentation. There > > doesn't seem to be any easy way of finding the stuff you really need > > to find. > > Try this and see if you have any better luck :- > > http://supportline.microfocus.com/documentation/books/nx51ws01/nx51in... > > There's an overall index for ALL the books, then indices within books. > > Now I know there used to be a Personal Edition way back but it was not > anything like the N/E I use. Are you talking specifically 'Personal > Edition' or is there another called 'University Edition' - I understood > the latter to be the full McCoy - just the 22K line limit on source so > that you can't distribute it. Definitely MF NET EXPRESS 5.1 Personal Edition (that is what it has on the start menu). Thanks for the link.
From: Pete Dashwood on 6 Feb 2010 20:42 James J. Gavan wrote: > Pete Dashwood wrote: >> James J. Gavan wrote: >> >>> Alistair wrote: >>>> >>> >>> Bit puzzled what is going on; was the original source 'freeformat', >>> so that he is starting in Column 1. (N/E you specifically set a >>> DIRECTIVE for free format). > > Although not shown in the code were you automatically > 'free-formating' ? I haven't tried it - but I kind of think that either in > Column 1 or > Column 7 your asterisks should be accepted. (I'll give that a try > sometime). >> Asterisk in column 7 (as per the ancient COBOL tradition) will definitely work. I like to insert comments in code and don't always want them on a different line (I have become used to using // on C# lines) The COBOL standard now supports "*>" (at least I think it does...) and so that made sense. >> Although Microsoft are much maligned, sometimes, when they get it >> right, the results are simply outstanding. > > I agree with that; they have done an outstanding job with the Office > suite. But here's the rub. I had MS Word, plus the others on my Win 98 > machine and produced some block diagrams. If I recall I used this > feature when writing to J4 about Collections, supporting my text with > diagrams. Now I'm into Win XP and as part of the deal I bought MS > Office Suite 2003. My block diagrams didn't work - pretty drawing was > replaced by something called Hyperlink. (A feature BTW that has crept into > some > of the latest J4 write-ups). So now I started searching MS directly > for Word. I found all sorts of amazing examples, with demos. But the > whole thing finishes up. "Like what we've shown you. Well why not > upgrade to MS 2007 ($$$$$$) ?". I use Visio for all my diagrams (including the ones on the cobol21 and PRIMA sites). I bought Visio back in the '90s and upgraded to 2003. It didn't cost a lot and was worth every penny. I haven't upgraded Visio to Office 2007 (although I do run that suite) because the version I have does everything I want. (Again, it is a COM server and integrates seamlessly with all the other Microsoft software). Sometimes, it is necessary to spend a few hundred bucks on something that makes life easier. Most "hobbies" require SOME investment and I guess "computing" is no exception. If you are writing commercial software you can write these purchases off against tax. Having said that, I agree it is a never ending battle... I had a request from a client a few days ago for a 64 bit windows 7 version of the Toolset (It is currently 32 bit but will run on any processor (including 64 bit) and is targeted for Win XP.) He runs multiple copies of it for various projects and staff, using a virtual machine image for each one. He's very happy with it, but thought if he could run 64 bit Win 7 it would be easier for backups and management, as well as being even faster, presumably. I simply don't have that environment in place and won't have until I replace my current main notebook. (BIGBLACK) Like you, it is a bit like having your nose pressed up against the shop window :-) I replace my main notebook every 3 - 4 years, but I don't do it unless I am absolutely sure the new one will pay for itself. (BIGBLACK has paid for itself many times over). I don't own or plan to own a desktop system and haven't for about 10 years. The power of modern notebooks renders them unnecessary, in my opinion, and the convenience of being able to work at the beach is the clincher for me. I run a wireless LAN and have one of the "old" notebooks dedicated to managing shared printing and LAN storage for backups. Other notebooks join the network as needed, and the MAC addresses of certain friends' machines are also programmed into my router so they can log on from the comfort of an armchair at my place. BIGBLACK is a dual core 4GB 17" SONY Vaio AR250G notebook with a HDMI interface so I can run it in high definition through my flat screen TV (very good for doing presentations, and viewing internet TV) and was one of the first notebooks in the world to have a 200GB hard drive. It is almost obsolete now and the next one will be quad with full Win 7 and XP in virtual machine. I am currently looking at new notebooks and like the latest Sager quads. Technically, these are gaming machines but the tech. specs. are simply breathtaking. Besides, commercial computing is a game, isn't it? :-) I can't see me getting anything before April, possibly later. > > So that triggered my looking at Sun's OpenOffice.org 3.0. I had a > quick dabble at it and reproduced the original block diagrams, with > colouring as necessary, fairly quickly. The original 'getting into Word' > for > diagramming paid off when using OpenOffice - the macros (dropdown > menus/keys/mouse/whatever) although perhaps given slightly different > names, the features were easy to identify. Being a Sun product, if you > are familiar with Java you can invoke OpenOffice.org from the latter - > not surprising. I think for non-Java people you use Basic. I have only > taken a cursory look to-date. Now if you can link to it with COBOL/OO > COBOL - and thinking of the word 'Open' (means 'FREE' doesn't it ?) - > why go with an excellent MS product, which although it adds new > useful/more flexible features, also adds a new price ? The latest release of Office 2010 I understand is going to be a free upgrade to people with Office 2007. (This may change before the package is officially released.). It is also possible to download the current Beta for free, particularly if you are a software developer. I'll stay with the MS product because that's where my current living is, but I have only heard good things about Open Office. > > As that Corsican said to his wife, "Not to-night Josephine". But get > my DateAndTime done - I will take a look at the Excel demo. Would appreciate it if you could, Jimmy. Thanks, Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Richard on 7 Feb 2010 00:01
On Feb 7, 2:42 pm, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: > James J. Gavan wrote: > > Pete Dashwood wrote: > >> James J. Gavan wrote: > > >>> Alistair wrote: > > >>> Bit puzzled what is going on; was the original source 'freeformat', > >>> so that he is starting in Column 1. (N/E you specifically set a > >>> DIRECTIVE for free format). > > > Although not shown in the code were you automatically > > 'free-formating' ? I haven't tried it - but I kind of think that either in > > Column 1 or > > Column 7 your asterisks should be accepted. (I'll give that a try > > sometime). > > Asterisk in column 7 (as per the ancient COBOL tradition) will definitely > work. > > I like to insert comments in code and don't always want them on a different > line (I have become used to using // on C# lines) > The COBOL standard now supports "*>" (at least I think it does...) and so > that made sense. > > >> Although Microsoft are much maligned, sometimes, when they get it > >> right, the results are simply outstanding. > > > I agree with that; they have done an outstanding job with the Office > > suite. But here's the rub. I had MS Word, plus the others on my Win 98 > > machine and produced some block diagrams. If I recall I used this > > feature when writing to J4 about Collections, supporting my text with > > diagrams. Now I'm into Win XP and as part of the deal I bought MS > > Office Suite 2003. My block diagrams didn't work - pretty drawing was > > replaced by something called Hyperlink. (A feature BTW that has crept into > > some > > of the latest J4 write-ups). So now I started searching MS directly > > for Word. I found all sorts of amazing examples, with demos. But the > > whole thing finishes up. "Like what we've shown you. Well why not > > upgrade to MS 2007 ($$$$$$) ?". > > I use Visio for all my diagrams (including the ones on the cobol21 and PRIMA > sites). I bought Visio back in the '90s and upgraded to 2003. It didn't cost > a lot and was worth every penny. I haven't upgraded Visio to Office 2007 > (although I do run that suite) because the version I have does everything I > want. (Again, it is a COM server and integrates seamlessly with all the > other Microsoft software). Sometimes, it is necessary to spend a few hundred > bucks on something that makes life easier. Most "hobbies" require SOME > investment and I guess "computing" is no exception. If you are writing > commercial software you can write these purchases off against tax. > > Having said that, I agree it is a never ending battle... I had a request > from a client a few days ago for a 64 bit windows 7 version of the Toolset > (It is currently 32 bit but will run on any processor (including 64 bit) and > is targeted for Win XP.) He runs multiple copies of it for various projects > and staff, using a virtual machine image for each one. He's very happy with > it, but thought if he could run 64 bit Win 7 it would be easier for backups > and management, as well as being even faster, presumably. > > I simply don't have that environment in place and won't have until I replace > my current main notebook. (BIGBLACK) Like you, it is a bit like having your > nose pressed up against the shop window :-) > > I replace my main notebook every 3 - 4 years, but I don't do it unless I am > absolutely sure the new one will pay for itself. (BIGBLACK has paid for > itself many times over). I don't own or plan to own a desktop system and > haven't for about 10 years. The power of modern notebooks renders them > unnecessary, in my opinion, and the convenience of being able to work at the > beach is the clincher for me. I run a wireless LAN and have one of the "old" > notebooks dedicated to managing shared printing and LAN storage for backups. > Other notebooks join the network as needed, and the MAC addresses of certain > friends' machines are also programmed into my router so they can log on from > the comfort of an armchair at my place. BIGBLACK is a dual core 4GB 17" SONY > Vaio AR250G notebook with a HDMI interface so I can run it in high > definition through my flat screen TV (very good for doing presentations, and > viewing internet TV) and was one of the first notebooks in the world to have > a 200GB hard drive. It is almost obsolete now and the next one will be quad > with full Win 7 and XP in virtual machine. > > I am currently looking at new notebooks and like the latest Sager quads. > Technically, these are gaming machines but the tech. specs. are simply > breathtaking. Besides, commercial computing is a game, isn't it? :-) > > I can't see me getting anything before April, possibly later. > > > > > So that triggered my looking at Sun's OpenOffice.org 3.0. I had a > > quick dabble at it and reproduced the original block diagrams, with > > colouring as necessary, fairly quickly. The original 'getting into Word' > > for > > diagramming paid off when using OpenOffice - the macros (dropdown > > menus/keys/mouse/whatever) although perhaps given slightly different > > names, the features were easy to identify. Being a Sun product, if you > > are familiar with Java you can invoke OpenOffice.org from the latter - > > not surprising. I think for non-Java people you use Basic. I have only > > taken a cursory look to-date. Now if you can link to it with COBOL/OO > > COBOL - and thinking of the word 'Open' (means 'FREE' doesn't it ?) - > > why go with an excellent MS product, which although it adds new > > useful/more flexible features, also adds a new price ? > > The latest release of Office 2010 I understand is going to be a free upgrade > to people with Office 2007. As I understand what was put on the MS web site and then taken down again was that people that bought Office 2007 after March <someday I forget> will get free upgrade to 2010 not everyone with 2010. > (This may change before the package is > officially released.). It is also possible to download the current Beta for > free, particularly if you are a software developer. > > I'll stay with the MS product because that's where my current living is, but > I have only heard good things about Open Office. Lotus Symphony 3 is based on Open Office plus some extras and will be released soon. Beta available now. > > As that Corsican said to his wife, "Not to-night Josephine". But get > > my DateAndTime done - I will take a look at the Excel demo. > > Would appreciate it if you could, Jimmy. > > Thanks, > > Pete. > -- > "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything." |