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From: RedGrittyBrick on 6 Jun 2010 17:41
On 06/06/2010 18:03, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Lew wrote:
>
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> Android is *not* a unix platform.
>>> Or do you reckon there's an X server in there somewhere?
>>
>> X Windows and UNIX (or UNIX-like) are orthogonal.
>
> No. X is the unix window system.
>

Unix originated in 1969, the X window system in 1984. The presence or
absence of the X-windows system isn't something I would use to determine
whether a system is Unix.

Unix System III in 1982 was Unix. SunOS with NeWS was still Unix.

So far as I know, Android *isn't* UNIX™ primarily because it hasn't been
submitted to the Open Group for compliance testing and certification.

That doesn't stop me thinking of it as part of a Unix family of
operating systems.

--
RGB
From: Joshua Cranmer on 6 Jun 2010 18:25
On 06/06/2010 01:03 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> No. X is the unix window system.

Actually, I believe X is more a protocol than a window system. Your
computer has an X server (or several), and programs (X clients) can
communicate with it. So a Windows program can just as easily be an X
client as can a Linux, Solaris, Mac, VMS, etc. program. Similarly, X
servers pretty much exist for major systems (that includes Windows: see
Xming et al.). God^H^H^HWikipedia claims that is originally designed for
thin clients.

--
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
From: Arne Vajhøj on 6 Jun 2010 18:42
On 06-06-2010 08:19, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>
>> On 05-06-2010 14:17, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05-06-2010 12:12, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, thanat0s wrote:
>>>>>> To be clear, i'm a brand new newbies in java programming, i just try
>>>>>> to follow android coding tutorials. and i got already a problem !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I follow this tuto :
>>>>>> http://developer.android.com/guide/tutorials/hello-world.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And everything run fine, but since i try to use the XML layout
>>>>>> problems begins. I can't run the application, i c'ant event edit
>>>>>> graphicaly the layout\main.xml i got
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seem i miss a library but how, where ? hope someone could help me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try an android developer forum. This group mostly deals with
>>>>> programming
>>>>> on 'real' computers.
>>>>
>>>> Java on a 1 GHz CPU with 512 MB RAM was a real computer just a few
>>>> years ago.
>>>>
>>>>> That said, this problem looks like something is trying to use
>>>>> unix-specific AWT operations; are you using a unix platform? Why
>>>>> would there be AWT going on inside Eclipse, which uses SWT? This
>>>>> looks like a configuration problem. Are you using a supported
>>>>> platform for whatever this editor is?
>>>>
>>>> Android is a Linux kernel.
>>>
>>> The APIs and deployment model are different. Your observations are
>>> interesting but irrelevant.
>>
>> I don't know if it is relevant or not.
>>
>> But note that both the topics:
>> - whether Android phone is real computer
>> - whether Android is a Unix platform
>> was raised by you.
>
> True. But the scare quotes around 'real' indicate that i'm not using it
> for its literal meaning, and so not suggesting that Android machines are
> not actually computers,

So what meaning of real were you using?

> and from a GUI point of view, which is what was
> under discussion, Android is *not* a unix platform.

It is a Linux platform and since Linux is not Unix certified
then it is not a true Unix, but it is sure Unix like.

> Or do you reckon
> there's an X server in there somewhere?

Whether there is an X server or not should not have much to
do with whether it is Unix or not.

There are plenty of Unixes that run without X.

Arne

PS: Android does not come with X, but smart people have made
it run on Android.
From: Arne Vajhøj on 6 Jun 2010 18:54
On 06-06-2010 13:03, Tom Anderson wrote:
>> X Windows and UNIX (or UNIX-like) are orthogonal.
>
> No. X is the unix window system.

It is not.

X is the windowing system on most Unix'es, some Unix-like OS's
like Linux and some non-Unix OS's like OpenVMS.

But on the Unix used most on desktop systems it is an optional
component (MacOS X).

X was created to be OS independent.

>> Or do you reckon that when I run X on MS Windows that the latter turns
>> into UNIX?
>
> No. But you are running a port of a unix technology to Windows.

No.

The intention of X is to be platform independent. It is not Unix
technology. It is standard technology.

> You can
> run bash on on Windows - does that mean bash is not a unix program?

Most will consider bash a Unix program, but people that use bash on
non Unix (incl. Unix like) platform does it to emulate Unix environment.
Either because they prefer it or need it for compatibility.

X was implemented on non-Unix platforms at the same time
as on Unix platforms and are native GUI on some non-Unix
platforms.

Arne

From: thanat0s on 8 Jun 2010 02:07
Hi all, has someone event read fully my question...

i'm try coding for android platform, i'm on a linux workstation last
ubuntu. And i got the problem in eclipse ide.. dealing with my X on the PC.

Is it more clear ?

I probably choose the wrong channe ;)

On 06/07/2010 12:42 AM, Arne Vajh�j wrote:
> On 06-06-2010 08:19, Tom Anderson wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>>
>>> On 05-06-2010 14:17, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05-06-2010 12:12, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, thanat0s wrote:
>>>>>>> To be clear, i'm a brand new newbies in java programming, i just try
>>>>>>> to follow android coding tutorials. and i got already a problem !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I follow this tuto :
>>>>>>> http://developer.android.com/guide/tutorials/hello-world.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And everything run fine, but since i try to use the XML layout
>>>>>>> problems begins. I can't run the application, i c'ant event edit
>>>>>>> graphicaly the layout\main.xml i got
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seem i miss a library but how, where ? hope someone could help
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try an android developer forum. This group mostly deals with
>>>>>> programming
>>>>>> on 'real' computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Java on a 1 GHz CPU with 512 MB RAM was a real computer just a few
>>>>> years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, this problem looks like something is trying to use
>>>>>> unix-specific AWT operations; are you using a unix platform? Why
>>>>>> would there be AWT going on inside Eclipse, which uses SWT? This
>>>>>> looks like a configuration problem. Are you using a supported
>>>>>> platform for whatever this editor is?
>>>>>
>>>>> Android is a Linux kernel.
>>>>
>>>> The APIs and deployment model are different. Your observations are
>>>> interesting but irrelevant.
>>>
>>> I don't know if it is relevant or not.
>>>
>>> But note that both the topics:
>>> - whether Android phone is real computer
>>> - whether Android is a Unix platform
>>> was raised by you.
>>
>> True. But the scare quotes around 'real' indicate that i'm not using it
>> for its literal meaning, and so not suggesting that Android machines are
>> not actually computers,
>
> So what meaning of real were you using?
>
>> and from a GUI point of view, which is what was
>> under discussion, Android is *not* a unix platform.
>
> It is a Linux platform and since Linux is not Unix certified
> then it is not a true Unix, but it is sure Unix like.
>
>> Or do you reckon
>> there's an X server in there somewhere?
>
> Whether there is an X server or not should not have much to
> do with whether it is Unix or not.
>
> There are plenty of Unixes that run without X.
>
> Arne
>
> PS: Android does not come with X, but smart people have made
> it run on Android.

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