Question About Tags Usage
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From: The Streets on 19 Apr 2010 10:59 Just upgraded from H&B 2007 to H&B 2010 and one of the new "features" is Tags. In the past, I've used sub-categories to split both business and personal entries between my wife and I. For example, I might have Consult_Income/wife and Clothing/wife. Since the categories themselves were tied to a tax schedule, this didn't cause any problems. Now, if I understand what is happening, the sub-category "wife" is now a Business tag and anything that I use this tag with becomes a business entry. So, do I have to create a new tag in order to track my wife's Clothing entries? Or am I missing something about the use of tags? Stephen
From: Laura on 20 Apr 2010 10:45 John Pollard wrote: > The Streets wrote: > >> "John Pollard" <8plus7isf(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:hqj2em$etc$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >>> Laura wrote: >>> >>>> The Streets wrote: >>>> >>>>> "CSM1" <nomail(a)nomoremail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:Xns9D5F8A804EA00nomoremail(a)74.209.136.94... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "The Streets" <streetsj.no.spam(a)sprintmail.com> wrote in >>>>>> news:XoidnWSFldla8lHWnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d(a)earthlink.com: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just upgraded from H&B 2007 to H&B 2010 and one of the new >>>>>>> "features" is Tags. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the past, I've used sub-categories to split both business and >>>>>>> personal entries >>>>>>> between my wife and I. For example, I might have >>>>>>> Consult_Income/wife and Clothing/wife. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since the categories themselves were tied to a tax schedule, this >>>>>>> didn't cause >>>>>>> any problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, if I understand what is happening, the sub-category "wife" >>>>>>> is now a Business tag and anything that I use this tag with >>>>>>> becomes a business entry. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, do I have to create a new tag in order to track my wife's >>>>>>> Clothing entries? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or am I missing something about the use of tags? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stephen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Did you use "Class" in your older Quicken? >>>>>> >>>>>> Tags is Class renamed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tags is a good way to group like items together. >>>>>> >>>>>> One way I use tags is on Rent property. Each property has it's own >>>>>> tag. Each property then shows in the income tax form and reports >>>>>> as individual properies. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> My fault - I called them sub-categories since I didn't remember >>>>> that they were actually called Classes. And, yes, I did use >>>>> classes in earlier versions. And I still have the same question - >>>>> please just substitute Classes for Sub-Categories in my message. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The rules don't change. The category, not the tag, defines the tax >>>> line assignment. Tags/classes just helps you separate the >>>> transactions into multiple groups. A tag of "Wife" does not make it >>>> taxable. >>>> >>>> It might be best to have categories that separate business and >>>> personal for all transactions in that category. then use tags within >>>> that category to separate your transactions from your wife's. >>>> >>> Just to amplify the last paragraph: starting with Q2009 H&B, Quicken >>> requires that a category be assigned a Schedule C Tax Line Item for >>> the category to be considered a "business category". >>> >>> The Help seems to suggest that if a Business Tag (which did not exist >>> prior to Q2009, I believe) is assigned to a transaction, Quicken will >>> consider that transaction to be a business transaction. But whatever >>> Intuit intended, the only transactions that will be included in the >>> P&L report are transactions whose categories have Scheduled C Tax >>> Line Items assigned. I haven't attempted to test with all H&B >>> (actually, in my case, RPM) business reports ... it's the P&L that >>> seems to get all the questions. >>> > > >> John, I just looked at a P&L under Profit/Loss Details. A cateogry >> ("Haircut") with no Schedule C tax line assignment and listed as type >> "Personal Expense" in the category list, shows up as a Recorded >> Expense since I used my Tag (formerly Class) when I entered it. >> > > You're right, my apologies. I had not tried this for a while; perhaps a > newer release fixed the problem, since my last test. I believe the > problem was reported several times in the Quicken Community, so there's > reason to believe Intuit was aware of it. > > Are you saying that in current versions that ANY use of Tags automatically makes the transaction a business transaction and will show up on the P&L and/or Schedule C reports? It doesn't in 2008.
From: The Streets on 20 Apr 2010 11:51 "Laura" <invalid(a)sample.invalid> wrote in message news:hqkdg7$l6e$1(a)n102.xanadu-bbs.net... > The Streets wrote: >> "Laura" <invalid(a)sample.invalid> wrote in message >> news:hqip1i$6i6$1(a)n102.xanadu-bbs.net... >> >>> The Streets wrote: >>> >>>> "CSM1" <nomail(a)nomoremail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:Xns9D5F8A804EA00nomoremail(a)74.209.136.94... >>>> >>>> >>>>> "The Streets" <streetsj.no.spam(a)sprintmail.com> wrote in >>>>> news:XoidnWSFldla8lHWnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d(a)earthlink.com: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Just upgraded from H&B 2007 to H&B 2010 and one of the new "features" >>>>>> is Tags. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the past, I've used sub-categories to split both business and >>>>>> personal entries >>>>>> between my wife and I. For example, I might have Consult_Income/wife >>>>>> and Clothing/wife. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the categories themselves were tied to a tax schedule, this >>>>>> didn't cause >>>>>> any problems. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, if I understand what is happening, the sub-category "wife" is >>>>>> now >>>>>> a Business tag and anything that I use this tag with becomes a >>>>>> business entry. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, do I have to create a new tag in order to track my wife's >>>>>> Clothing >>>>>> entries? >>>>>> >>>>>> Or am I missing something about the use of tags? >>>>>> >>>>>> Stephen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Did you use "Class" in your older Quicken? >>>>> >>>>> Tags is Class renamed. >>>>> >>>>> Tags is a good way to group like items together. >>>>> >>>>> One way I use tags is on Rent property. Each property has it's own >>>>> tag. >>>>> >>>>> Each property then shows in the income tax form and reports as >>>>> individual properies. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> My fault - I called them sub-categories since I didn't remember that >>>> they were actually called Classes. And, yes, I did use classes in >>>> earlier versions. And I still have the same question - please just >>>> substitute Classes for Sub-Categories in my message. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> The rules don't change. The category, not the tag, defines the tax line >>> assignment. Tags/classes just helps you separate the transactions into >>> multiple groups. A tag of "Wife" does not make it taxable. >>> >>> It might be best to have categories that separate business and personal >>> for all transactions in that category. then use tags within that >>> category to separate your transactions from your wife's. >>> >> >> I think that the rules did change -- merely using the tag "wife" causes >> non-tax related categories to appear on the Schedule C report as >> "**Unspecified Business Expense**" >> >> >> > I could not replicate what you are seeing until I started experimenting. > Disclaimer: I am using H&B2008 so things maybe different 2010. > > Let me explain how my file is setup: I have a business. I specified a > Business tag ("Books") under the business information menus. I also have > numerous tags representing clients as "other" type of tag (to track source > of income) plus several other tags related to misc personal expenditures. > > The categories related to my business are specified as business and have > sched C lines assigned to them. All personal categories are either not > mapped to a tax line or are mapped to appropriate 1040 or schedule A > lines. > When I run any P&L type of report I only get my business categories listed > in the report. When I run the cash flow by Tag I can see that my mapping > is correct: all business transactions have either the business tag "Books" > or one of the client specific tags for income. My Schedule C report only > reports my business categories with either the "Books" tag or one of my > clients tag. > > Then I started experimenting (after consulting the help file). I added the > "Books" tag to several transactions that were not related to my business. > They were posted to non-Business categories. Immediately these > transactions showed up on the P&L and Schedule C reports. > > So based on my limited experimenting it appears that for transactions to > show up on P&L or Schedule C reports they must be either posted to a > category that is designated as a business account OR have a Business tag > assigned. This is also consistent with the information in the help file > (search on Tags). > > Hoping that things are the same in H&B2010, you should check the type of > tag that "Wife" is listed. It should be an "other" tag and not a > "Business" tag. Also check the classification of the categories impacted > making sure that they have been correctly classified as personal vs > business. It appears that one of these dimensions are incorrect if they > are showing up on the business reports. Yes, "Wife" is a Business Tag - something that got setup during the installation of H&B 2010. I did this not realizing all the implications. Now, I don't see any way to change the type of this Tag. And since I've been using this Class (now Tag) for many years on both personal and business expenses, all my prior year Schedule C reports are now cluttered with non-business expenses. Sure glad I had the foresight to finish all my 2009 tax work before I upgraded. This is a mess! Caused by Intuit inverting the logic of classifying business expenses. In the past, a Category was either linked to Schedule C or not. Period. If it was, then Class (actually, Copy Number) could be used to generate separate Schedule's C. Now the logic is, if the Tag is a business Tag then the item is considered a business expense regardless of whether a Category is linked to Schedule C or not (if it isn't linked then the entry is reported as an "**Unspecified Business Expense**"). I'm going to have to think about how I can fix this. Prior year data (going back to Quicken 6) is surely a lost cause. I'll probably have to create several new Tags - some business and some personal. Then re-Tag all this year's transactions.
From: Laura on 20 Apr 2010 12:21 The Streets wrote: > "Laura" <invalid(a)sample.invalid> wrote in message > news:hqkdg7$l6e$1(a)n102.xanadu-bbs.net... > >> The Streets wrote: >> >>> "Laura" <invalid(a)sample.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:hqip1i$6i6$1(a)n102.xanadu-bbs.net... >>> >>> >>>> The Streets wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> "CSM1" <nomail(a)nomoremail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:Xns9D5F8A804EA00nomoremail(a)74.209.136.94... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "The Streets" <streetsj.no.spam(a)sprintmail.com> wrote in >>>>>> news:XoidnWSFldla8lHWnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d(a)earthlink.com: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just upgraded from H&B 2007 to H&B 2010 and one of the new "features" >>>>>>> is Tags. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the past, I've used sub-categories to split both business and >>>>>>> personal entries >>>>>>> between my wife and I. For example, I might have Consult_Income/wife >>>>>>> and Clothing/wife. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since the categories themselves were tied to a tax schedule, this >>>>>>> didn't cause >>>>>>> any problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, if I understand what is happening, the sub-category "wife" is >>>>>>> now >>>>>>> a Business tag and anything that I use this tag with becomes a >>>>>>> business entry. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, do I have to create a new tag in order to track my wife's >>>>>>> Clothing >>>>>>> entries? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or am I missing something about the use of tags? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stephen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Did you use "Class" in your older Quicken? >>>>>> >>>>>> Tags is Class renamed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tags is a good way to group like items together. >>>>>> >>>>>> One way I use tags is on Rent property. Each property has it's own >>>>>> tag. >>>>>> >>>>>> Each property then shows in the income tax form and reports as >>>>>> individual properies. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> My fault - I called them sub-categories since I didn't remember that >>>>> they were actually called Classes. And, yes, I did use classes in >>>>> earlier versions. And I still have the same question - please just >>>>> substitute Classes for Sub-Categories in my message. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The rules don't change. The category, not the tag, defines the tax line >>>> assignment. Tags/classes just helps you separate the transactions into >>>> multiple groups. A tag of "Wife" does not make it taxable. >>>> >>>> It might be best to have categories that separate business and personal >>>> for all transactions in that category. then use tags within that >>>> category to separate your transactions from your wife's. >>>> >>>> >>> I think that the rules did change -- merely using the tag "wife" causes >>> non-tax related categories to appear on the Schedule C report as >>> "**Unspecified Business Expense**" >>> >>> >>> >>> >> I could not replicate what you are seeing until I started experimenting. >> Disclaimer: I am using H&B2008 so things maybe different 2010. >> >> Let me explain how my file is setup: I have a business. I specified a >> Business tag ("Books") under the business information menus. I also have >> numerous tags representing clients as "other" type of tag (to track source >> of income) plus several other tags related to misc personal expenditures. >> >> The categories related to my business are specified as business and have >> sched C lines assigned to them. All personal categories are either not >> mapped to a tax line or are mapped to appropriate 1040 or schedule A >> lines. >> When I run any P&L type of report I only get my business categories listed >> in the report. When I run the cash flow by Tag I can see that my mapping >> is correct: all business transactions have either the business tag "Books" >> or one of the client specific tags for income. My Schedule C report only >> reports my business categories with either the "Books" tag or one of my >> clients tag. >> >> Then I started experimenting (after consulting the help file). I added the >> "Books" tag to several transactions that were not related to my business. >> They were posted to non-Business categories. Immediately these >> transactions showed up on the P&L and Schedule C reports. >> >> So based on my limited experimenting it appears that for transactions to >> show up on P&L or Schedule C reports they must be either posted to a >> category that is designated as a business account OR have a Business tag >> assigned. This is also consistent with the information in the help file >> (search on Tags). >> >> Hoping that things are the same in H&B2010, you should check the type of >> tag that "Wife" is listed. It should be an "other" tag and not a >> "Business" tag. Also check the classification of the categories impacted >> making sure that they have been correctly classified as personal vs >> business. It appears that one of these dimensions are incorrect if they >> are showing up on the business reports. >> > > Yes, "Wife" is a Business Tag - something that got setup during the > installation > of H&B 2010. I did this not realizing all the implications. Now, I don't > see > any way to change the type of this Tag. And since I've been using this > Class > (now Tag) for many years on both personal and business expenses, all my > prior year Schedule C reports are now cluttered with non-business expenses. > Sure glad I had the foresight to finish all my 2009 tax work before I > upgraded. > > This is a mess! Caused by Intuit inverting the logic of classifying business > expenses. In the past, a Category was either linked to Schedule C or not. > Period. If it was, then Class (actually, Copy Number) could be used to > generate separate Schedule's C. Now the logic is, if the Tag is a business > Tag then the item is considered a business expense regardless of whether > a Category is linked to Schedule C or not (if it isn't linked then the entry > is reported as an "**Unspecified Business Expense**"). > > I'm going to have to think about how I can fix this. Prior year data (going > back to Quicken 6) is surely a lost cause. I'll probably have to create > several new Tags - some business and some personal. Then re-Tag all > this year's transactions. > > > This might work: Setup a new tag that is your correct business tag--or even a dummy tag. Then go into Business>>Mange Business information. Select your business and click on the Edit button. Now change the "wife" tag to this new business tag. This *should* make the Wife tag an "other" tag instead of a "business" tag. What I don't like is that Intuit assumes that a business only needs 1 tag. One of the things that I see going on is that Intuit is trying to capture the small business market via Quicken. It is cheaper than QuickBooks and they have tried to add business features (a/p, a/r, sales tax) to a program that originally was intended as a Personal Finance manager. Unfortunately, I think they failed miserably.
From: CSM1 on 19 Apr 2010 14:36
"The Streets" <streetsj.no.spam(a)sprintmail.com> wrote in news:XoidnWSFldla8lHWnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d(a)earthlink.com: > Just upgraded from H&B 2007 to H&B 2010 and one of the new "features" > is Tags. > > In the past, I've used sub-categories to split both business and > personal entries > between my wife and I. For example, I might have Consult_Income/wife > and Clothing/wife. > > Since the categories themselves were tied to a tax schedule, this > didn't cause > any problems. > > Now, if I understand what is happening, the sub-category "wife" is now > a Business tag and anything that I use this tag with becomes a > business entry. > > So, do I have to create a new tag in order to track my wife's Clothing > entries? > > Or am I missing something about the use of tags? > > Stephen > > > Did you use "Class" in your older Quicken? Tags is Class renamed. Tags is a good way to group like items together. One way I use tags is on Rent property. Each property has it's own tag. Each property then shows in the income tax form and reports as individual properies. -- CSM1 http://www.carlmcmillan.com |