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From: Metspitzer on 25 Apr 2010 23:22
My case has 2 external USB 2 ports that plug into the mobo. They were
the ones I used for external USB stuff like a camera and a WD
passport. I now have my mouse and keyboard plugged into the front so
the built in USB 2 ports on the back are free. (The built in ones are
the ones that are attached to the mobo)

When I plugged my WD passport into the front, I got an error message
that the hardware did not load properly or something similar. But
sometimes I get that message when plugging the drive into the built in
ones. I can unplug it and sometimes re plug it and it will work.

I am wondering if I could lower my chance for problems by buying an
3.5 inch USB 2 port that plugs into my mobo? My thinking is that,
because the external ones also have a power connector, this might
cause better performance than the mobo ones.


From: Paul on 26 Apr 2010 04:09
Metspitzer wrote:
> My case has 2 external USB 2 ports that plug into the mobo. They were
> the ones I used for external USB stuff like a camera and a WD
> passport. I now have my mouse and keyboard plugged into the front so
> the built in USB 2 ports on the back are free. (The built in ones are
> the ones that are attached to the mobo)
>
> When I plugged my WD passport into the front, I got an error message
> that the hardware did not load properly or something similar. But
> sometimes I get that message when plugging the drive into the built in
> ones. I can unplug it and sometimes re plug it and it will work.
>
> I am wondering if I could lower my chance for problems by buying an
> 3.5 inch USB 2 port that plugs into my mobo? My thinking is that,
> because the external ones also have a power connector, this might
> cause better performance than the mobo ones.
>
>

I have a USB2 enclosure for 3.5" drives, with its own power adapter,
and have had no problems with the USB interface. Mine has a switch
on it, so I can turn it off when it is not being used. (That just
disconnects the drive from the adapter - the adapter still wastes
a bit of power from the wall.)

With 2.5" drives, some of them, the spinup current draw is too much
for the bus current limit of 500mA. Some 2.5" enclosures come with
a "two headed" USB cable, to solve the powering problem. If the drive
you own is a 7200RPM model, maybe its spinup current makes the thing
marginal when plugged into your USB ports. (Not every 2.5" hard
drive I've tried to look up, states the spinup current. You'd think
they were ashamed of the number or something.)

This drive, for example, lists 500mA for read/write. Which is the
limit of the USB spec. And no figure is listed for spinup, which
could be a higher current flow number than that.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=477

Seagate has no specs at all, for the couple 2.5" drives I looked at.
Clever.

Toshiba seems to be the most honest at the moment.

http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=StorageSolutions/PCNotebookHardDrives/MKxx54GSYSeries/MKxx54GSYspecs

Power Requirements
Voltage 5V (+/-5%)
Spin up (start) Power 5.5 watts
Seek Power 2.2 watts
Read/Write Power 1.9 watts
Active Idle Power 1.2 watts
Low Power Idle 0.9 watts
Standby Power 0.18 watts
Sleep Power 0.13 watts

Dividing 5.5 watts by 5 volts, gives a spinup current of 1.1 amps through
a USB port with a stated 500mA limit. The Polyfuse might not open
right away, and maybe the drive can get 1 amp for the first 10 seconds
it needs to spin up. That could be a reason why a drive might be
marginal with a single USB port as a power source. On a laptop, sometimes
the device checking current flow, is a lot more precise at cutting
off an overload, which is why some laptops are even less tolerant with
USB housed 2.5" drives.

A "two headed USB cable" only helps, if it is tapping into two *independent*
power sources. On a desktop system, with two USB ports on the front, they
draw current from the same Polyfuse. Which is why, even if you were to plug a
two headed (data + power) type USB cable into your desktop PC, it might not
help. If you plugged the two headed cable, into one front port and one rear port,
then those use different Polyfuses. But of course, a two headed cable has
insufficient spacing between heads, to stretch that far :-)

Some drives include a barrel connector on the enclosure, for 5V power.
But they never include an adapter for it. Which means lots of fun
trying to find the right adapter to use.

So, yeah, a 3.5" USB2 enclosure, will solve your problems.

Paul
From: Metspitzer on 26 Apr 2010 18:04
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:09:49 -0400, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote:

>Metspitzer wrote:
>> My case has 2 external USB 2 ports that plug into the mobo. They were
>> the ones I used for external USB stuff like a camera and a WD
>> passport. I now have my mouse and keyboard plugged into the front so
>> the built in USB 2 ports on the back are free. (The built in ones are
>> the ones that are attached to the mobo)
>>
>> When I plugged my WD passport into the front, I got an error message
>> that the hardware did not load properly or something similar. But
>> sometimes I get that message when plugging the drive into the built in
>> ones. I can unplug it and sometimes re plug it and it will work.
>>
>> I am wondering if I could lower my chance for problems by buying an
>> 3.5 inch USB 2 port that plugs into my mobo? My thinking is that,
>> because the external ones also have a power connector, this might
>> cause better performance than the mobo ones.
>>
>>
>
>I have a USB2 enclosure for 3.5" drives, with its own power adapter,
>and have had no problems with the USB interface. Mine has a switch
>on it, so I can turn it off when it is not being used. (That just
>disconnects the drive from the adapter - the adapter still wastes
>a bit of power from the wall.)
>
>With 2.5" drives, some of them, the spinup current draw is too much
>for the bus current limit of 500mA. Some 2.5" enclosures come with
>a "two headed" USB cable, to solve the powering problem. If the drive
>you own is a 7200RPM model, maybe its spinup current makes the thing
>marginal when plugged into your USB ports. (Not every 2.5" hard
>drive I've tried to look up, states the spinup current. You'd think
>they were ashamed of the number or something.)
>
>This drive, for example, lists 500mA for read/write. Which is the
>limit of the USB spec. And no figure is listed for spinup, which
>could be a higher current flow number than that.
>
>http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=477
>
>Seagate has no specs at all, for the couple 2.5" drives I looked at.
>Clever.
>
>Toshiba seems to be the most honest at the moment.
>
>http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=StorageSolutions/PCNotebookHardDrives/MKxx54GSYSeries/MKxx54GSYspecs
>
> Power Requirements
> Voltage 5V (+/-5%)
> Spin up (start) Power 5.5 watts
> Seek Power 2.2 watts
> Read/Write Power 1.9 watts
> Active Idle Power 1.2 watts
> Low Power Idle 0.9 watts
> Standby Power 0.18 watts
> Sleep Power 0.13 watts
>
>Dividing 5.5 watts by 5 volts, gives a spinup current of 1.1 amps through
>a USB port with a stated 500mA limit. The Polyfuse might not open
>right away, and maybe the drive can get 1 amp for the first 10 seconds
>it needs to spin up. That could be a reason why a drive might be
>marginal with a single USB port as a power source. On a laptop, sometimes
>the device checking current flow, is a lot more precise at cutting
>off an overload, which is why some laptops are even less tolerant with
>USB housed 2.5" drives.
>
>A "two headed USB cable" only helps, if it is tapping into two *independent*
>power sources. On a desktop system, with two USB ports on the front, they
>draw current from the same Polyfuse. Which is why, even if you were to plug a
>two headed (data + power) type USB cable into your desktop PC, it might not
>help. If you plugged the two headed cable, into one front port and one rear port,
>then those use different Polyfuses. But of course, a two headed cable has
>insufficient spacing between heads, to stretch that far :-)
>
>Some drives include a barrel connector on the enclosure, for 5V power.
>But they never include an adapter for it. Which means lots of fun
>trying to find the right adapter to use.
>
>So, yeah, a 3.5" USB2 enclosure, will solve your problems.
>
> Paul

Your computer knowledge is so much more than mine, you usually tell me
more than I want to know. :)

I appreciate your attempts to educate me, but you are usually talking
way up here and I am trying to listen way down here. :)

I can't find what I am looking for. I ordered something similar, in
the past, for my niece that plugged into a PCI card and also had a
connector to connect to plug in a floppy power supply connector.

This one has a place for a USB connector to the mobo but does not have
a separate power supply connector. I need something like this but
with a power connector.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1506104&CatId=4753

Anyone know where I can get a good quality one?
From: Steve on 26 Apr 2010 19:36
In article <sp1ct553e9b1e2mapf3gjmo4rlhtbc5dat(a)4ax.com>,
kilowatt(a)charter.net says...
>
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:09:49 -0400, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote:
>
> >Metspitzer wrote:
> >> My case has 2 external USB 2 ports that plug into the mobo. They were
> >> the ones I used for external USB stuff like a camera and a WD
> >> passport. I now have my mouse and keyboard plugged into the front so
> >> the built in USB 2 ports on the back are free. (The built in ones are
> >> the ones that are attached to the mobo)
> >>
> >> When I plugged my WD passport into the front, I got an error message
> >> that the hardware did not load properly or something similar. But
> >> sometimes I get that message when plugging the drive into the built in
> >> ones. I can unplug it and sometimes re plug it and it will work.
> >>
> >> I am wondering if I could lower my chance for problems by buying an
> >> 3.5 inch USB 2 port that plugs into my mobo? My thinking is that,
> >> because the external ones also have a power connector, this might
> >> cause better performance than the mobo ones.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I have a USB2 enclosure for 3.5" drives, with its own power adapter,
> >and have had no problems with the USB interface. Mine has a switch
> >on it, so I can turn it off when it is not being used. (That just
> >disconnects the drive from the adapter - the adapter still wastes
> >a bit of power from the wall.)
> >
> >With 2.5" drives, some of them, the spinup current draw is too much
> >for the bus current limit of 500mA. Some 2.5" enclosures come with
> >a "two headed" USB cable, to solve the powering problem. If the drive
> >you own is a 7200RPM model, maybe its spinup current makes the thing
> >marginal when plugged into your USB ports. (Not every 2.5" hard
> >drive I've tried to look up, states the spinup current. You'd think
> >they were ashamed of the number or something.)
> >
> >This drive, for example, lists 500mA for read/write. Which is the
> >limit of the USB spec. And no figure is listed for spinup, which
> >could be a higher current flow number than that.
> >
> >http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=477
> >
> >Seagate has no specs at all, for the couple 2.5" drives I looked at.
> >Clever.
> >
> >Toshiba seems to be the most honest at the moment.
> >
> >http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=StorageSolutions/PCNotebookHardDrives/MKxx54GSYSeries/MKxx54GSYspecs
> >
> > Power Requirements
> > Voltage 5V (+/-5%)
> > Spin up (start) Power 5.5 watts
> > Seek Power 2.2 watts
> > Read/Write Power 1.9 watts
> > Active Idle Power 1.2 watts
> > Low Power Idle 0.9 watts
> > Standby Power 0.18 watts
> > Sleep Power 0.13 watts
> >
> >Dividing 5.5 watts by 5 volts, gives a spinup current of 1.1 amps through
> >a USB port with a stated 500mA limit. The Polyfuse might not open
> >right away, and maybe the drive can get 1 amp for the first 10 seconds
> >it needs to spin up. That could be a reason why a drive might be
> >marginal with a single USB port as a power source. On a laptop, sometimes
> >the device checking current flow, is a lot more precise at cutting
> >off an overload, which is why some laptops are even less tolerant with
> >USB housed 2.5" drives.
> >
> >A "two headed USB cable" only helps, if it is tapping into two *independent*
> >power sources. On a desktop system, with two USB ports on the front, they
> >draw current from the same Polyfuse. Which is why, even if you were to plug a
> >two headed (data + power) type USB cable into your desktop PC, it might not
> >help. If you plugged the two headed cable, into one front port and one rear port,
> >then those use different Polyfuses. But of course, a two headed cable has
> >insufficient spacing between heads, to stretch that far :-)
> >
> >Some drives include a barrel connector on the enclosure, for 5V power.
> >But they never include an adapter for it. Which means lots of fun
> >trying to find the right adapter to use.
> >
> >So, yeah, a 3.5" USB2 enclosure, will solve your problems.
> >
> > Paul
>
> Your computer knowledge is so much more than mine, you usually tell me
> more than I want to know. :)

So why not upgrade your knowledge a bit? His answers are not just for
you, but anybody with a similar problem that bothers to do a Usenet
search on their problem.

>
> I appreciate your attempts to educate me, but you are usually talking
> way up here and I am trying to listen way down here. :)
>
> I can't find what I am looking for. I ordered something similar, in
> the past, for my niece that plugged into a PCI card and also had a
> connector to connect to plug in a floppy power supply connector.
>
> This one has a place for a USB connector to the mobo but does not have
> a separate power supply connector. I need something like this but
> with a power connector.
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1506104&CatId=4753
>
> Anyone know where I can get a good quality one?

Why can't you use something like:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817394025

BELKIN F5U304-WHT USB 2.0 Plus Hub ?






s


From: Metspitzer on 26 Apr 2010 20:00
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:36:38 -0700, Steve <invalid(a)invalid.com> wrote:

>In article <sp1ct553e9b1e2mapf3gjmo4rlhtbc5dat(a)4ax.com>,
>kilowatt(a)charter.net says...
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:09:49 -0400, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Metspitzer wrote:
>> >> My case has 2 external USB 2 ports that plug into the mobo. They were
>> >> the ones I used for external USB stuff like a camera and a WD
>> >> passport. I now have my mouse and keyboard plugged into the front so
>> >> the built in USB 2 ports on the back are free. (The built in ones are
>> >> the ones that are attached to the mobo)
>> >>
>> >> When I plugged my WD passport into the front, I got an error message
>> >> that the hardware did not load properly or something similar. But
>> >> sometimes I get that message when plugging the drive into the built in
>> >> ones. I can unplug it and sometimes re plug it and it will work.
>> >>
>> >> I am wondering if I could lower my chance for problems by buying an
>> >> 3.5 inch USB 2 port that plugs into my mobo? My thinking is that,
>> >> because the external ones also have a power connector, this might
>> >> cause better performance than the mobo ones.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >I have a USB2 enclosure for 3.5" drives, with its own power adapter,
>> >and have had no problems with the USB interface. Mine has a switch
>> >on it, so I can turn it off when it is not being used. (That just
>> >disconnects the drive from the adapter - the adapter still wastes
>> >a bit of power from the wall.)
>> >
>> >With 2.5" drives, some of them, the spinup current draw is too much
>> >for the bus current limit of 500mA. Some 2.5" enclosures come with
>> >a "two headed" USB cable, to solve the powering problem. If the drive
>> >you own is a 7200RPM model, maybe its spinup current makes the thing
>> >marginal when plugged into your USB ports. (Not every 2.5" hard
>> >drive I've tried to look up, states the spinup current. You'd think
>> >they were ashamed of the number or something.)
>> >
>> >This drive, for example, lists 500mA for read/write. Which is the
>> >limit of the USB spec. And no figure is listed for spinup, which
>> >could be a higher current flow number than that.
>> >
>> >http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=477
>> >
>> >Seagate has no specs at all, for the couple 2.5" drives I looked at.
>> >Clever.
>> >
>> >Toshiba seems to be the most honest at the moment.
>> >
>> >http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=StorageSolutions/PCNotebookHardDrives/MKxx54GSYSeries/MKxx54GSYspecs
>> >
>> > Power Requirements
>> > Voltage 5V (+/-5%)
>> > Spin up (start) Power 5.5 watts
>> > Seek Power 2.2 watts
>> > Read/Write Power 1.9 watts
>> > Active Idle Power 1.2 watts
>> > Low Power Idle 0.9 watts
>> > Standby Power 0.18 watts
>> > Sleep Power 0.13 watts
>> >
>> >Dividing 5.5 watts by 5 volts, gives a spinup current of 1.1 amps through
>> >a USB port with a stated 500mA limit. The Polyfuse might not open
>> >right away, and maybe the drive can get 1 amp for the first 10 seconds
>> >it needs to spin up. That could be a reason why a drive might be
>> >marginal with a single USB port as a power source. On a laptop, sometimes
>> >the device checking current flow, is a lot more precise at cutting
>> >off an overload, which is why some laptops are even less tolerant with
>> >USB housed 2.5" drives.
>> >
>> >A "two headed USB cable" only helps, if it is tapping into two *independent*
>> >power sources. On a desktop system, with two USB ports on the front, they
>> >draw current from the same Polyfuse. Which is why, even if you were to plug a
>> >two headed (data + power) type USB cable into your desktop PC, it might not
>> >help. If you plugged the two headed cable, into one front port and one rear port,
>> >then those use different Polyfuses. But of course, a two headed cable has
>> >insufficient spacing between heads, to stretch that far :-)
>> >
>> >Some drives include a barrel connector on the enclosure, for 5V power.
>> >But they never include an adapter for it. Which means lots of fun
>> >trying to find the right adapter to use.
>> >
>> >So, yeah, a 3.5" USB2 enclosure, will solve your problems.
>> >
>> > Paul
>>
>> Your computer knowledge is so much more than mine, you usually tell me
>> more than I want to know. :)
>
>So why not upgrade your knowledge a bit? His answers are not just for
>you, but anybody with a similar problem that bothers to do a Usenet
>search on their problem.

Reading about bus current and drive speeds just doesn't interest me.
Paul's comments are very informative and very appreciated. He did
answer my question. It was yes. :) I clearly understood that.

>
>>
>> I appreciate your attempts to educate me, but you are usually talking
>> way up here and I am trying to listen way down here. :)
>>
>> I can't find what I am looking for. I ordered something similar, in
>> the past, for my niece that plugged into a PCI card and also had a
>> connector to connect to plug in a floppy power supply connector.
>>
>> This one has a place for a USB connector to the mobo but does not have
>> a separate power supply connector. I need something like this but
>> with a power connector.
>> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1506104&CatId=4753
>>
>> Anyone know where I can get a good quality one?
>
>Why can't you use something like:
>
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817394025
>
>BELKIN F5U304-WHT USB 2.0 Plus Hub ?
>
I want an internal one to mount in a floppy bay.

I have found one that plugs into the mobo, but I haven't found one
that has a powered (bus?)


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